July 26 2008

Brian: Welcome Atlanta to the Breakthrough Addiction recovery Hour, I am Brian Fujii and my co-host Jill Mattingly, welcome back Jill!

Jill: Hey Brian, it is so good to be back

Brian: Good vacation?

Jill: Yes, and everyone wants to know where I was I am sure,

Brian: Yeah and you aren’t going to tell us

Jill: NO. It was actually one of those places in your life where you make a decision to go to your 30 year High School Reunion

Brian: You told the world

Jill: But, HEY I looked pretty good! (laughter) I did!

Brian: We aren’t going to see how you compared yourself to others (laugh_)

Jill: You know I had such a good time and it is so surreal to go to your high school reunion and those of you that are listening and you know what I am talking about, youi recognize the face but without their hair and a different body you aren’t sure if they are the same person.

Brian: IT was fun wasn’t it?

Jill: Oh it was so much fun.

Brian: We had a good show last week with our special guest Leslie Dinkins and we talked about domestic violence and we covered a lot of territory. It was very informative. So, again, this is a call in show and we encourage our audience to call as we discuss today, King and Queen Baby. We are going tyo talk about the characteristics men and women with issues with addiction and you know we talked about the men uh a couple weeks ago and so today

Jill: equal time

Brian: absolutely so if this is of interest to you call us at 770-226-0920 again 770-220920

So what is in the news?

Jill: Well one of the things that caught my eye over this last week was an article out of Providence Rhode Island and they had picked up a man after he crashed his vehicle into a road sign and did a breathalyzer on him and found blood alcohol actually broke all of the records in Rhode Island at .489 and a few minutes later it was checked again and it tested at .491! Now as some of you may know uh, some may not but the legal limit on a breathalyzer blood alcohol level is .08 so, he was six times the legal limit and driving a car and thank God he crashed only into a road sign and not another person and this was actually a record for the police up there in Rhode Island and this guy just said well …they took him to the station and they did gratefully they saw the need to put him in the hospital right away and do a alcohol detoxification and at that level you can look normal one minute and be totally unconscious at the next. So, it is very important to know that that level is not normal and you can not act normally at that level, I can not believe he was driving.

Brian: six times the limit…amazing

Jill: He was alcohol detoxed up there and tremulous at his arraignment and it brought up some interesting points in the article that there are actually many times that police officers throughout the country for pulling over drivers have those limits of blood alcohol level and it is getting people concerned that they are driving, wrong way drivers? We hear a lot about that and they cause devastation and mos t of the time you will see a very high blood alcohol level and the people ….but they were looking at this man and saying well how did he reach .49? What would he have had to have drank? One speculated that he probably had to have 6 to 10 shots within two hours of whiskey or rum or tequila to get into that level

Brian: binger

Jill: Yeah, then another said estimating a long term drinking starting in the morning and drinking all day and that he was looking at a 12 ounce glass of beer or shot and one half of whiskey and probably about 24 of those over a 6 hour period. So, anyway you look at it there are people in Atlanta right now getting to that level and going out to get in a car and

Brian: Because they ran out

Jill: (laugh) Right and so it is really troublesome I mean we have had some come into Breakthrough that their hospital reports show levels at the point 4 and above.

Brian: That has been phenomenal and we have seen more of that and the tolerance is amazing to me.

Jill: Tolerance is the word. Yes. You have to work your way to that. Another thing to point out is that once they are alcohol detoxed from that amount of alcohol and maybe have time that is without the alcohol in their system maybe they go a month or two in rehab and then they come out and try to drink at that level again quickly they can kill themselves because their tolerance has changed while away from the alcohol.

Brian: Good point because while in that protected environment they feel they have gained the skills, they say that they wanted to prove to themselves they could manage or handle the drinking. So they test themselves and lo and behold they are back to where they were or if not worse. If they go to that level that fast it is deadly

jill: i would like to do a study on that, but there was an articdle and brian and i have been talking about this all morning, the crackberry if there is real scientific evidence of how it operates your brain once you get attached to it. it has to do with the opioid receptors and the brain

brian: yes it does and the receptor does provide a sense of euphoria if you use this often, because opiods are something like your typical pain killers or heroin morphine or any of those types of pain killers and we do know that a majority are located inside the lower brain. most as you said, studies show that we have opioids all over

jill: not opioids but opiates,

brian: the opiates, that’s right,

Jill: we have the receptors all over our body and

brian: even in the gut. crazy

jill: and so the interesting thing about crackberries are that they key into this and they have the identified that it’s the human’s non stop need for more information that feeds into the crackberry addiction, so we are coming up to a break and i know you want this information because it will stimulate you’re your opioid receptors, so when we come back, we will come back and tell you why that crackberry means so much to you 770-226-0920.

Commercial break

Jill: Welcome back to the breakthrough addiction recovery hour and I am coming back with a little song in the background I wanted to send out a thank you to all the people that have kept my nephew James in their prayers, he cam e home from the hospital today

Brian: fantastic

Jill: I want to thank you so much for the prayers and concern so James I am glad you are home sweetie.

We are talking about issues in addiction and the news stories. The first story was about blood alcohol levels and now we are talking about a story in the AJC about blackberry use and that is the little device used for email and phone and everything else and we have called it the “crackberry” that is a term going around now a few years and if you are driving along you may see someone with their crackberry next to you!

Brian : That is the scary part.

Brian: Right the pool of associated information, like when you look at something and it reminds you of something, there is a lot more stimulation that is going on in there and we take a look at the receptor sights that we find even in the neo cortex area as the brain is stimulated as it makes us go back to our pool of knowledge the excitement comes about.

Jill: This is very interesting Brian cause this feeds back to an understanding of addiction and they are doing studies on crack cocaine that they show that the memory stores the uh the thought of what it is like to use the drug, ok? So, if I am upset or bored or having an unpleasant moment my memory will stimulate me to start to think about what it would be like to use the drug like cocaine. So by just stimulating the memory I can release dopamine and feel good just thinking about it and remember ing how it feels

Brian: That is why it is so hard when people are around the stimuli, in the early stages of addiction recovery we tell clients to stay away from familiar environments. The more they are around it the more they are reminded l…..as you say the drug or drink made them feel better, they need to avoid that uncomfortable feeling

Jill: Where you are responsible for reception and cognition and that is stimulated because the new thing you see is tapping into the old things that you know you get new association points and a much thicker and richer neuro net and it is pleasurable and so enter the crackberry who has the ability to keep going off every 30 seconds with new information and phone calls and emails and with alerts you know to breaking news, um why do we want to keep checking our email? It all revolves around this part of our brain. Through the opioid receptor I think that is absolutely the threshold of a new area of study I believe because just as our engineer was pointing out our children these day s are hooked into video games which are full of information coming at them every point five seconds they see a new image and some of these shows and video games and so their brains are being set up to crave new information so obviously the infovore which was used in the study instead of carnivore it is a infovore and we are voracious for information and so the crackberry is just the beginning.

Brian: Now we understand why and now we know that

Jill: Why are you on that all the time?

Brian: Neuroscience helps us understand this topic and if you are interested call us at 770-226-0920 and if you are outside the Atlanta area call at 1-888-920-2665. Last week we talked about domestic violence and Leslie Dinkins was with us and she is a domestic violence coordinator and she looked at what are some of the areas of domestic violence what are the causes because some think that it is just physical addiction and what we began to realize is that it is so much more. For example if they are being deprived of using the phone for example or kept from going to their job because they are expected to stay at home these are areas of control. She brought up something very interesting and it also causes people who want control is that we find the majority of those perpetrators is the issue of power and control. And you know obviously if an individual constantly feels threatened and no purpose is it any wonder that perhaps they won’t be also looking at using drugs or alcohol as a way to calm that peace down. As we take a look at domestic violence we did find this out that it is that there is no real connection that say substance addiction produces domestic violence and that is very interesting and they also found out that there when there was domestic violence and alcohol was involved the injuries were far worse.

Jill: Then if that is happening if mixed with substance addiction then why does the female typically stay in the environment, that is the question many ask.

Brian; Great question, we didn’t have a lot of time but here are some of the reasons but the person may actually feel they are not capable of leaving without the financial resources or to get a job or have the confidence

Jill: What if they are also in the midst of dependency of substances like alcohol and drugs and if they are drinking with their spouse and it does unfortunately evolve into domestic violence I can see them having that connection with the addiction and not wanting to leave. You know

Brian: Especially if they need the finances to obtain their drugs of choice.

Jill: 770-226-0920 we are having a conversation about domestic violence and make our way into women and characteristics of women in the midst of a substance abusing pattern, so , 770-226-0920 stay with us and we will be right back.

Commercial Break

Jill: David in Tucker on line one, turn your radio down and….Right now tell us a little about what you are calling in about,

David: Well,

Jill: turn your radio down

David: it isn’t on but …well

Jill: our engineer is waving his hands right now. So what is your question?

David: Well an observation there is an addictionr but also a break point often times I have found people who are in good relationships and then they get married and there is a change in relationship and the addictionrs dysfunctional behavior shows up and then I have seen people I swear that the codependent relationship is such that the addictionr and the addictiond seek each other out and even if the addictiond is removed from the economic reasons for being stuck in the relationship and even go into a positive relationship I have known those to dump the positive relationship and go bavck to the brutal physical relationship and the disease has to take some measure of responsibility of going back into such a horrendous situation.

Brian: We find that when you have individuals with a pattern they have grown up with david and a sense of needing or having a way of relationships that they feel that they are not familiar with kindness and openness and as a result they do seek someone acting something familiar and they begin feeling unworthy of the good addiction treatment and they end up going back into the addiction and when you talk about taking responsibility yes, at the same time it does not give the right of the individual to addiction anyone, so many times we get that impression so they deserve it, that is incorrect because it is still a definitively destructive behavior and it is certainly criminal if abusive.

David: Something perhaps a definition of the domestic addiction situation is that I think it is people don’t quite say it but it is personality types and as you pointed out there are people who really can’t relate in a relationship and seek out the dysfunctional relationship because of familiarity and domestic violence exists from all of the stuff I see those that want a relationship and the addictiond and the addictionr personality seem to show up disproportionately and there is a big change factor for males that are addictiond because you know there are programs for women who are addictiond which is much more prevalent and what on earth and to the best of my knowledge I have never met an addictiond male but what would he do if he were addictiond?

Brian: If it was physical they can certainly try to find a place to remove a place and get into a safe environment just as women can, shelters would be for women predominantly but there are programs for men who are the addictionr and the addictiond. Again we will close this piece but you help us lead right into our topic here and we are at a break David and we are going to talk about women who have issues with substance addiction and lead people into using alcohol more because of certain types of dependent characteristics or the feeling of being unacceptable being who they are so stay tuned for the piece and get ideas about what is going on and thanks for your call and keep listening.

Jill: Very interesting because I am looking at how substance addiction ties into this issue of domestic violence and I am shocked that there isn’t a clear cut you know joining of these two issues in terms of alcohol addiction or drug addiction leading to domestic violence however, it seems like it is somehow always involved. I just a interested to know that if a female is having problems with substance addiction or dependency and that is leading her to stay in an abusive relationship or leaving her as David would point out to be abusive to her spouse there are a lot of characteristics that we call the Queen Baby that start to help us understand why addiction could happen in these types of relationships. We will have to hit that in the next segment. We will go ahead and take a break so call us 770-226-0920 and we will be right back, stay with us.

Commercial Break

Brian: 770-226-0920 if you are interested in participating in discussion on addiction and how it impacts relationships and how uh, Jill at the end of the break was talking about the relationship between addiction and domestic violence and just to clarify on that

Jill: Help me understand Brian help me understand this

Brian: A study was done by the National Coalition that while substance addiction does not cause domestic violence there is a correlation between the two

Jill: ok

Brian: When violence occurs there is a high frequency of use of drugs during the addiction and what we want people to understand that people who addiction substances that it causes domestic violence we need to understand that is an inaccurate correlation however people to do addiction have some correlation to alcohol and drugs but it doesn’t cause it and that is the big problem, we can’t say it is caused by alcohol and drugs, this takes us now to the topic of the day I think dealing with characteristics that we experience in our addiction treatment of how women who are in addiction what are the characteristics that it is very important, why do certain individuals go back into those environment that are threatening to them because of familiarity and we have terminology in our program that is a topic that we do use that is called Queen Baby and

Jill: We use this in family education and in

Brian; Day addiction treatment program and as well as helping client’s loved ones to understand the characteristics to look for and give homework to discuss with their loved ones because so many times the bottom of the lighthouse is the darkest part. They can’t see unless someone else looks out. The booklet we use, Queen Baby by Sheila Hermes and she is a licensed individual and we use this booklet a lot to help clients understand the characteristics that they may not have looked at themselves that they really are motivating them to continue to use and many times to help them to find out why they used in the first place so some of these characteristics will help understand and let’s look at the term,

Queen Baby they sound incongruous of each other because queen is power position and authority and yet the baby indicates impotence and dependence and the reality is they have both. So when you take a look at the idea of baby that is where it first starts, we are all birthed and we have all come through the birth process and in that process in the natural development of our human characteristics we will get more and more mature with better coping skills and less and less dependent and more independent and hopefully become more interdependent and many times as people begin to develop the processes and because of interference and developmental issues they don’t slough off some of that um babiness and as a result they maintain some of those immature characteristics however because they are now being seen as young adults or adults they are now beginning to have this conflict of having immature characteristics and yet they still want the power and control to move forward.

Jill: What are some of the characteristics? Tell me some of those

Brian: The individual may feel they need control of everything

Jill: Micromanager?

Brian: OR feeling they have to be able to control everything in their own environment and not only the control and they feel they must do everything quickly and that quickness is also another way of controlling their own environment and so when you take a look at that characteristic it effects the relationship styles quite significantly and in fact when you look at the characteristic of the queen baby it is identified by inhibited emotional development. So may be chronologically up in age you emotional development may not be and there the struggle begins.

Jill: Let’s do that after the break. I want to hear more characteristics, hmmm listeners may be asking some questions, so 770-226-0920 call in get in on the conversation and we will be right back.

Commercial Break

Jill: We are back and it looks like Brian line one it is Nettie. Hi Nettie

Nettie: Thank you for taking my call

Jill: You took, we are in the last segment and let’s see if we can help you

Nettie: I will be brief. I had something to occur with a family member and My daughter ended up marrying a guy on line a single dating thing and then she lowers the boom that he had just gotten out of drug and alcohol when she met him and uh, that was because I had asked where was his glass for our champagne and I was told he could not drink and then went to visit them and I saw behavior that was very distrurbing to me

Jill: what was that

Nettie: He was so hyper and he was very sporadic in his actions and easily agitated and he did a lot of screaming and um he was yelling at her and the children and he did not carry a conversation with me directly and I could not keep his attention and um my question is this, knowing his alcohol and drug use with rehab and he may not be using I know from what in the past my knowledge of alcoholism is that they are never cured that they may not drink but it is an illness and a sickness and they within themselves can control it but even though he doesn’t drink would there be that deep desire for something else

Brain: Yes Nettie one of the things about rehab and that is why we say it is a chronic manageable but potentially relapsing disease and therefore when you come to understand that although they have completed rehab and it is early in the rehab it takes at least 8 to 12 months for the brain to get back to normal balance and craving can possibly be an issue and you know at Breakthrough we do provide for our clients to help them manage this craving component is a medication called Naltrexone and it helps for the individual struggling with the drinking issue.

Jill: Also Nettie that agitation and hyper activity there is something called post acute withdrawal and that can go on for quite a while if the brain is used to having the alcohol to calm things down the person will feel agitated and not quite comfortable in their skin for a while and you know having a counselor and or a therapist or the right medication to help can be very important.

You are very observant and you are witnessing either post acute withdrawal or an underlying co-ocurring disorder like depression or add or

Nettie; I think that is part of it and a persecution complex and

Jill: My advice is to talk to your daughter and understanding the disease of alcoholism and look into some counseling for the family.

Brian: So true, eventhough Nettie, your son in law is getting has just recently come out of a facility ongoing support and continued counseling is very essential and we would be happy to talk with yuou or the family member and we have a free consultation for you and your family and we would be able to say what other supports do you need to manage and remember it is a manageable disease with counseling, etc.,

Nettie: The what was that Nal…

Brian: Naltrexone will decrease alcohol cravings

Brian: I am Brian Fujii

Jill: Have a great day and

Brian: Thanks for listening

Lois: What could I do you had my arm at such an angle I had to say yes

Jill: Lois has been with us for the better part of the year

Lois: 6 months

Jill: She wears so many hats at Breakthrough and I have asked her to tell us about herself so I don’t get anything wrong, so tell us Lois

Lois: Well, I am a native Floridian and a graduate of UNC Chapel Hill and I have nursing degree, public health degree, education degree, and we could go on forever and paper a wall

Jill: Are you a weight lifter too?

Lois: Yeah, Brian and I work out together, in Jo’s new office. I have been in the addiction field for 35 plus years and have watched it change over time and my passion has been working with addicted women and as a woman I know the some of the difficulties trials and tribulations and joys of being a woman in our society um working with women has been very rewarding for me most I think the most recent experience I had was working with the women in Grady Health System which was a different experience altogether and that is who I am and now I am at Breakthrough and we have a joy ful day every day that we show up (laughter)

Jill: Well I will say this, Dr. Dutton or Lois as I refer to you, she is actually a wonderful mentor to us at Breakthrough Addiction recovery, those of us that are new, she has done some amazing things, and that number again is 770-226-0920 cause I know you want to call and ask Dr. Dutton a question.

Lois: You are just buttering me up for next time

Jill: We also have another guest today, Jo Abney a licensed professional counselor and Jo thank you for coming

Jo: Glad to be here

Jill: I am glad you said ok, I will do this. This is her first time on radio so if you say two sentences this will be good, we may have to shut her up Lois, (laugh) today is women’s issues and addiction and we will focus on alcohol and at Breakthrough we see many women come through our doors that have uh, dependency issues, addiction issues, and it is very difficult because no two women are alike when they come through the door and you have to meet them where they are and decide what is the best situation for this person and I thought what we would do is start off with general statistics when we talk about women and alcohol as apposed to men.

Lois: in our general population Jill we know that fewer women than men actually drink but of those that do and get into serious alcohol problems and other drugs then the numbers change appreciably and we see almost one third of individuals who actually develop alcohol addiction and drug addiction problems are women. On the whole women generally drink less than men until we cross over that threshold and we get into heavy and abusive drinking and then the pendulum swings and we see them develop more serious problems than men who with the same amount of drinking so contrary to popular opinion this is not a unisex world (laugh) there are two sexes and lets thank God for that.

Jill: Does age matter when we talk of this. Are we looking at different age groups for this problem.

Lois: We know that younger women report higher rates of drinking and the older women and I don’t want to insult but 35 is the bottom of that number let’s say 35 to 49 or 50 we see the majority getting into serious difficulty as a result of their drinking. Women over 50 we have another plethora of difficulty that we look at from a gender point o few and addiction

Jill: That makes me think about the younger women maybe looking at a binging style of drinking when they are young high school college age and going into the 20’s a lot of the clients come in are under the age of 30 are reporting that along with other substance addiction, and so that is an interesting thought that is something that is down the road if they continue the binging and can turn into the dependency and into the rest of the problem

Lois: And the parameters of the drinking change and if you are young a partying it is a social type of thing the other people in their lives they drink because it is part of the social experience that they have and as we get older our parameters change

Jill: I have seen this dynamic where the younger women come in and they have the boyfriend that uses and they are using the drugs that the boyfriend uses and the woman might be using alcohol and he might be using opiates or cocaine or something like that but it is interesting Lois and I don’t know if you and Jo have noticed this but some of our 35 and over women have spouses or significant others that don’t use at all and I think that is an interesting scenario

Lois: Yes, again the parameters of drinking and the whole reason for drinking the whole response to drinking changes as we get older.

Jill: So that could be more of finding a mate or partner that is codependent who can enable the behavior rather than you know when they are young they want to party together and they feel less conspicuous if everyone is using

Lois: Absolutely

Jill: That number is 770-226-0920, we are going to talk a little about why men are more likely to crave alcohol under stress than women are. And what do women do when they are under stress. Many think that is why they drink but men beat us on that they get the bottle first, we will talk more after this break. 770-226-0920, stay with us call in and we will be right back.

Commercial Break

Jill: 770-226-0920, the first line of that song, “I’d like to hate myself in the morning,” that is an old Judy Garland song, you remember her don’t you she was a friend of yours?

Lois: yeah we grew up together (laughter)

Jill: Like the song says I want to party and do things and then hate myself in the morning and have a great time, but unfortunately, as we know from working in the substance addiction field, it doesn’t stand still it doesn’t mean one time it develops into a lifetime of difficulty and pain and that is why we are talking about women’s issues. This is the Breakthrough Addiction recovery Hour, my name is Jill Mattingly joined by Dr. Lois Dutton and therapist Jo Abney. WE are an estrogen crew today talking about…if you have a question, please call in at 770-226-0920 and before the break I had mentioned that there was a something off the internet from the Science Daily and it states that men are more likely to crave than women to crave alcohol when they feel negative emotion. For example it says after a stressful experience women will say more than men that they feel hopeless however our male counterparts are more likely to drink alcohol and then progress into dependence if they have to endure stressful situations. I think that is interesting in the difference in why they might grab a bottle before talking about their stress like a woman would. What do you think?

Lois: Jo mentioned earlier about learned behavior from men

Jill: It is accepted isn’t it

Jo: It is we see it often in the media and tv shows, movies, we certainly see men going out to the bar to drown the sorrow and not deal with it in a healthy coping way, just

Jill: Just about every sitcom has the male going to the corner bar to talk about their issues, so that’s interesting that they grab that

Lois: On the other hand what we see is the women that internalize those feelings, then manifest themselves in depression and anxiety and somatic complaints that get medicated as opposed to going to the bar to drink so the women they apply their own brand of medication at home

Jill: In the story it says that women tend to ruminate or think over and over again about the negative emotional state and men in contrast want to distract themselves from negative emotions. That is just no fair (laugh) You know that is one thing I can say, ok guys, let’s learn that from you, ok, that suppressing the emotions as we know in the medical field can be very difficult on your health and you know that brings us to one of the main sugjects in the media right now extremely in this last year even there have been new studies to show how women get sicker physically quicker than men when it comes to long term alcohol use.

Lois, Yes, part of the reason that we are seeing that these studies come to light Jill is that most of what we know about drug and alcohol addiction has been based on studies of men because men were the number one candidates they were the one in addiction treatment and most of our addiction treatment facilities were geared toward men and addiction treatment and a few years ago we had facilities that had no accomodation for women it was just assumed that women didn’t have those problems and now we know differently and we see the numbers rise and more women in addiction treatment but we see far less than men, but now we have turned our attention toward doing research studies that include women and looking at the physiological differences that women ring to the picture of alcohol and drug addiction that changes the parameter for what we do. For example, we know physiologically women have less fluid in our bodies,

Jill: Now women call in and say no way! Laugh

Lois: We end up with more fat than men do and because of less water, when we drink there is less available to dilute the concentration of alcohol going into the body therefore, it goes much more, you know you get a harder hit in the bloodstream than in men so women of equal weight and size are not getting an equal bang out of the same amount of alcohol. It is like pouring a quart of vodka into a one bucket pail of water as opposed to a three bucket pail you get higher concentration and we know that concentration going directly into the bloodstream is much more damaging as it hits the liver and other organs. The other thing we know now is that women have less of a gastric enzyme in their stomachs that is essential for the metabolism of alcohol dehydrogenates, hard to say, and because women have less, then what we call in our medical jargon is first pass metabolism, that means it is in the stomach and the stomach can take care of some of it before it gets into the bloodstream and that is done by the enzyme and with women having less of it then they miss out on some of the benefit of the first metabolism before it hits the bloodstream and it goes directly into the liver and we see more liver damage in women than in men

Jill: And I think that I have seen what you are talking about because it has only been in the last few years that they have linked even moderate use of alcohol to breast cancer and you know of course heavy use is connected but now even moderate use

Lois: What they have found the studies with this statistic most of those have been done in women that were older and they know for example post menopausal women with a natural decrease in estrogen that if you drink even moderately one or two drinks, that alcohol has the capacity to stimulate and increase the pre flowing estrogen in the body and estrogen is related to the incidence of breast cancer, so how that translates in younger women who already have their fair share of estrogen, if alcohol can increase that level then we have an increased risk of breast cancer.

Jill: Then if men had been getting breast cancer, they would have done a study earlier? You think? Yeah, that has come out in the last few years and moderate alcohol link and of course the liver is absolutely necessary for you to stay alive and we know that alcohol effects the liver and we do see liver damage and disease occurring more quickly and less time of use and it actually worsens quicker and I think most of the men I don’t see until the 50s or 60s but these are women in their 30s and 40s having liver disease where they are on their way to a transplantation, scary stuff and the number again is 770-226-0920 I would love to hear from you today if you have a question or comment or just want to ask us what moderate drinking to heavy drinking and what is dependency vs. addiction. We would love to give you answers so please call, 770-226-0920. Stay with us we will be back right after this break.

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Commercial Break

Jill: 770-226-0920 that is the number, if you would like to call in and maybe you are a female you don’t have to be but if you are and you are driving along and thinking that this might be an issue for you and this might be something that I need to talk about because I have never thought that my 2 to 4 glasses of wine every night might be turning into a problem and you know I have never discussed it with anyone and no one really knows I drink up to a bottle a night. You may want to call and ask questions about that issue itself and see if there are some things that you need to understand about it. When we talk about the differences in the sexes and dependency there are some unique reasons women fall into alcohol dependency and can you go over some of those with us, Jo and Lois.

Lois: Women tend to have a lot more difficulty with guilt with shame with um, feelings of disconnect in a lot of ways because of their drinking and this withdrawal kind of thing and I think it has to do with how important relationships are to us as women and we know that in alcohol and drug addiction historically women’s patterns we see histories of childhood victimization either sexual addiction as children or spouse addiction as they get older. Some kind of feeling of not being attacked in some way and basically that translates to most of us as women when the folks that we have the most faith in and the most belief in and then they turn around and do something to us that destroys our inner feeling of worth to ourselves then it becomes this whole sense of betrayal and for most of us as women betrayal automatically leads to silence then leads to isolation and secrecy in women and then we know as Brian says so often in addiction treatment and you have heard this Jo, our secrets keep us sick. That is not only true for abusing women it is true for all of us as women. Those secret places within ourselves that we hide basically from everyone else and somehow we have to find a way of dealing with them

Jo: I think so and I think that through the very course of women’s lives we become isolated because of social situation, for instance a stay home mom, her kids go to school and that is a big chunk of the day is isolated and then empty nested women then you will find that you know women are like well I have done my job and my children have succeeded and gone on to their own lives so what do I do now? That is a big time and then of course we see older women widowed because they live longer and then another type of isolation

Lois: One of the fastest growing group are older women which is a new phenomenon

Jill: A call on line one. This is Ruth in Atlanta, I

Ruth: I was so shocked that I by chance flipped to your station I usually listen to 9.70 but I just wondered how long you have been on is it weekly

Jill: We are on every Saturday and we are a business in Norcross and we do substance addiction and addiction and we decided to take the message out to Atlanta and beyond, there is so much

Ruth: Is this a good time for people to listen? Because there are a lot of people that need to hear you every week.

Jill: We are on weekly Ruth.

Ruth: That is thrilling cause it is definitely needed.

Jill: We have seen that Ruth and many come through our doors saying that they had no idea until the radio show that they had issues with addiction. This is it is just at a service to people to facilitate the discussion about addiction and dependency as we were talking about they are the silent disease and people not talking about it means they won’t get help.

Ruth: I think they don’t recognize it, they don’t see themselves that way.

Jill: Ruth, thank you and continue to listen. We will say hey to you

Ruth: I am going to get your information to someone, is it Breakthrough.com?

Jill: www.breakthroughaddictionaddiction recovery.com

Jill: Thanks and you were just bringing up

Lois: Wonderful caller,

Jill: I can retire now that I have had that call

Lois: We were talking about prescriptive roles for women in our society and many of those roles, we have no choice because we are the care givers and the mothers, partners, wives, and we are all of the female roles and for the most part that fits nicely with us but it is when society begins to impose on women that they give this extra burden and women can’t step up to the plate and fulfill those roles and they feel the shame and the guilt and the withdrawal.

Jill: What about anxiety and depression? We read earlier women tend to go into those psychiatric problems quicker than men when faced with stress and need addiction treatment more often. People that may be self medicating silently every day at 4PM we are coming to the end of the segment so our number is 770-226-0920 and let us just say this we are so appreciative of our audience that listens and gets this information and passes it along. Please give the website to those you know that need help. Stay with us we will be right back.

Commercial Break

Jill: 770-226-0920 we are coming to our last segment and this has been an interesting show about addiction and women. There is so much to go over even when you separate the genders there is even well it opens more doors of things to walk through and talk about. We talked about depression and anxiety, shame and guilt and I can’t help but say that someone is heading home from the liquor store with a bottle on the passenger seat and they are going to go home for their ritual until late at night or passing out earlier if that is their intent. If that is a daily occurrence for you or your loved one then most likely you have a dependency issue and you need to talk to someone that understands the disease. Dr. Dutton, Jo, what is the most important thing for people to hear as we come to the end,

Lois: My plea to the women who may be listening or to the men who know these women, please don’t let fear, shame, guilt, stigma associated with having stepped outside the social boundaries that are allotted to us as women, don’t let any of those issues stop you from doing for yourself what you need to do. Come in and talk to us and share with us and let us see and build for you some kind of a plan for how you are going to walk yourself back out of an addictive lifestyle.

Jo: Stop and consider the underlying issues that have been there for you and we do know that many people who end up developing addictions on any substance may have an underlying disorder that needs to be treated in more effective ways than picking up a bottle.

Jill: It really does come down to passing the threshold from suffering in silence and talking about this. There are other facilities and support programs, AA and many other ways to start the conversation and most of the time once the conversation gets started or you start to divulge these things you will make your way into a very effective addiction treatment situation. It really does start with looking down and seeing what is going on and what is the truth right now and you know I just feel like you know when we talked last segment about depression and anxiety many of our clients coming through do talk much about depression or grieving process that hasn’t been gone through or free floating anxiety or things associated with menopause, these are things that many times can be treatable and with a good psychiatric or psychological evaluation through your doctor or psychiatrist you can have addiction treatment that will start to lessen the amount of alcohol you would want to take in and you won’t need the self medication anymore.

Lois: It is critical too Jill that you have a clear picture of what is happening within you that is triggering so that is part of what we do, we teach, we support and we do all of those kinds of things at Breakthrough.

Jill: I want you to hear today that we are available 24/7, you can call our office for information any time and I really do appreciate our listeners calling in and supporting the show and we are probably going to go into a bit more information about the addiction issue next week. Brian is preparing the show. Jo, who is the guest?

Jo: Leslie Dinkins is a social worker in Forsyth County with the Domestic Violence Task Force and she is excellent and well worth listening to.

Jill: She will join Brian next week to talk about domestic violence, this once again goes down the road of problems for women in many many households, so if you enjoyed today’s show please tune in next week Saturday at 3pm. The website is breakthroughaddictionaddiction recovery.com, go there and get the information call us or email us. We hope you enjoyed today’s show, thank you once again, Dr. Lois Dutton, Jo Abney (laughter) the estrogen task force. Take care.

JUNE 28, 2008/RADIO SHOW

CHARACTERISTICS OF THOSE SUFFERING FROM DRUG AND ALCOHOL ADDICTION

Brian: Good Afternoon Atlanta and welcome to the Breakthrough Addiction Recovery Hour, my name is Brian Fujii and my co-host Jill Mattingly,

Jill: It is so gorgeous out there today, I even tried to have a garage sale this morning but no one showed up because it looks like rain

Brian: On the weather channel I could not believe all the red marks on the screen,

Jill: Well we are sitting in Buckhead on this rainy weekend, it is good to be back and hope everyone is having a good day. I will start with our phone number and an interesting subject subject and we want people to call us today so get involved ….

Brian: Oh yes, we are talking about the characteristics of those that are having trouble with alcohol and drugs from the characteristic side, what kind of personality do they develop?

Jill: Loved ones out there will recognize the characteristics very easily so, 770-226-0920 once again, 770-226-7920.

Brian: the loved ones could do this show(laughter)

Jill: Call and get in on this conversation talk to us about your loved one or yourself, I thought we would start off Brian with a news article I was reading at my empty garage sale. Huge headline in a large font and it says “A Worrisome Week”

I have been thinking about this, and that is how are the media, the television, newspaper and internet influencing people with fear of the future. Economic turn down, recession and they have not defined it yet as a recession and it has not met the criteria for recession and if you say it enough you will begin to believe it, all of this fear mongering and this headline, “A Worrisome Week” all of these go into starting a stress response. A stress response and the release of your adrenaline and the fight or flight feeling and you can’t pinpoint what you are afraid of but you know that you are anxious and afraid and that is low level stress. What do you do when you are anxious or stressful? You like to do something about it. Some may sit down in an easy chair and watch tv, some may exercise but many out there will do something to alter the stress response such as alcohol and it can be an efficient stress reliever or other types of medications or drugs.

Brian: It is interesting you say that because in our studies we have found that one of the key motivators for pain killers …..do you know what that is?

Jill: STRESS

Brian: Good! You get an “A”! (laughter) But it is amazing, we have a lot of folks out there and we have seen this in the news how prescription meds are being more addictiond than anything else recently. And so obviously we have looked at things like those pain killers and we know they are being addictiond a lot and we know that stress is one of the biggest keys. The gas prices, the economy for business owners, you can imagine how that stress is tempting them to use.

Jill: If you have the AJC you recognize the headline and right below that is “bad news” and I mean all of these words have marks in our brains, and they produce a response and the people that write the news know this and they know how to trigger in us the release of neurotransmitters in our brains that help us go along with what they want us to feel. Not like “Big Brother” but it does make a big difference on how we are being told how things are going around us and for some people that produces a fear or anxiety response. Then they are more apt to use, I bring that up because when you use more you move into addiction and then we know ultimately dependency. If this rings true with you, call in and give us your story or weigh in on this issue, call us at 770-226-0920 that is 770-226-0920, we are a call in show and you can come in, no don’t come in but call in anytime you want and talk about this issue.

Having a fear and anxiety response to what you see going on around you in your job or your family and try to self medicate with drugs or alcohol can lead to dependency and then we have learned the last few weeks what that can lead to. Obviously it can lead to socio economic drift where we have discussed the last weeks and losing things and our own …..

Brian: Our own relationships and we see this and that drift can also lead to for many people especially those in recovery the what we call the behavioral drift. What is that? Many people staying in recover and the pressure gets too great without coping skills they can drift down that road and that is a real danger and that is what we are talking about today.

Jill: When the drift happens and the consequences become legal or job loss, we see more fear and anxiety, and my point is that if you are sitting there with a drink in your hand and you are thinking about dependency on a substance and you think you might have that problem going on but you still are working and you don’t have any legal problems and you have good insurance, well, now is the time to look into programs out there including ours that can help you overcome this before it becomes a problem where you start to lose things. Trust me, when you lose your job and insurance and help that means you have very little choices in order to go out and get addiction treatment. Few choices that may not make you feel like that is what you want to do.

Brian: When you limit your choices you increase your stress. It is a cycle and then increases the desire to self-medicate even more.

Jill: Absolutely.

Brian: We see a degrading pattern. Today what we will look at is trying to help our clients, well clients too but our listening audience look at characteristics that may begin manifesting as a result of this stress that you are talking about Jill. So, what are some of those specific characteristics as a result of not being able to cope. So I am looking forward to this time and we ask the question and I would like to take a look at this so the question of the hour is, “Why do addicts violate their most important core values?” Why is that and we will ask and some will say, “Well what is my core value?”

Jill: Well isn’t that what we are taught in kindergarten or childhood, our core value.

Brian: Apple pie and the flag (laughter) no, honesty and openness and willingness to change and truth and ability to communicate.

Jill: Kindness

Brian: Why is it that those particular values degenerate when someone uses more and more alcohol. That is what we want to talk about today this causes so many relationships to dissolve and as a result because of that strain and stress, families fall apart because of no support.

Brian: During our free consultations we hear from the family members things like honesty and hope are all gone and the family is at a loss. So we ask the question, “What is it about addiction that causes people to abandon core values?” Because the brain has changed, people ask how is that? The idea is that when people continue to use alcohol and other drugs there becomes an unbalance with the neurotransmitters in the brain. Not just the balance but guess what? Even their personality takes on a different characteristic, if they were open and loving and kind they become isolated where they are in the room but aren’t present.

Jill: Or distracted, people that use things like stimulants, seem distracted like another two or three chess moves that they are thinking through while you are talking to them. I have seen that behavior quite a bit,

Brian: This is why we say to parents, you know if they have children or adolescents, if they begin seeing significant behavior changes, such as non communicative and angry,

Jill: Wait a minute Brian, that is puberty isn’t it?

Brian: (laughter) Ok, well we see this with parents calling asking how a straight A student can become a failing teen in trouble. Or their friends begin to change and they are surrounding themselves with different people. As people continue to use alcohol and drugs the brain begins to go through a change and as that brain changes they become more and more withdrawn and they become more and more isolated and as a result of that behavior they begin compromising their core values. If the communication was there, they become withdrawn. We will find people of courage and integrity can become fearful and procrastinating and sometimes these changes come about slowly gradually and that is the bigger problem.

Jill: You are trying to say that by using the drugs and alcohol for whatever reason that they are using it can start to see characteristics of their personality and behavior that will change visibly.

Brian: Very visibly, not only by what they do but by what they say, their thinking processes, they can become fragmented and this is where we see the isolation beginning to occur. We know that young adolescents don’t always want to be around their parents and become sometimes combative or isolate with …

Jill: Isolate away from the non users in their life so they can hang with the users.

Brian: Some of the feelings that they begin, I want our audience to hear this, sometimes they think it is “against” them. It is not always the case. If this is grabbing your interest call us at 770-226-0920. I know that there are people out there that have someone that is having some of these changes and I don’t know what is going on. Give us a call. Another piece is that what we find is that behaviors change and not just to them and others but they begin feeling shame, guilt, fear and even this kind of self directed anger.

Now, instead of having that communication they are more withdrawn and argumentative and you feel guilt.

Jill: Well I just had a vision of there is say a woman, by the way this isn’t an evangelistic show, I could see a woman out there and she hits the steering wheel and says to herself, “That is what happens!” They say to me, “Well he is still drinking after the divorce and won’t see the kids, etc.,” they don’t realize that this slippery slope is happening. They were headed into a place of behavior change and that is what caused the marriage to start to go south. If they lose their core values such as honesty and integrity and loving kindness, all of the things that have been covered by the dependency on the alcohol and drugs, then of course you have relationship problems and of course many times that dissolves relationships. I can just see people out there saying “That is what happened, it wasn’t because of the money, or me,……” It was the dependency and that became the slippery slope.

Brian: We always take the externals. That is where we get a lot of confusion so they try to fix these things and when they try to fix them the problem doesn’t go away because the fact is it is internal. Looking at the willingness to do things initially and now you are complacent you will see things happening where the environment begins to degenerate also.

Jill: Absolutely, I am going to give out that number since I mentioned that woman in the car, she might want to whip out the cell phone and call us, 770-226-0920, this is nuts and bolts about how alcohol and drug dependency can dissolve that quickly. When we come back we will talk about how the addicted person acts toward people once they begin to feel the shame and guilt you were talking about Brian. 770-226-0920.

Commercial Break

Jill: And maybe in a passive aggressive way.

Brian: Oh, well said, that is exactly correct and all that has come out is like throwing something against the wall, it will be a cutting statement and something that they withdraw or withhold emotions or angry enraged response.

Jill: Interesting, I am sure people are turning up the radio for their spouse right now (laughter)

Brian: Also, as an individual is struggling they are trying to figure out why they feel this way and when the loved ones see this they feel that this is something determined. What we find out in addiction treatment is that the individual doesn’t even know why they are angry. Some people as you know have different characteristics, so they can drive it inward with silence and get more depressed and start feeling even more withdrawn and they don’t know how to deal with that and that is why at Breakthrough we try to help our clients learn how to manage these emotions of anger depression and frustration. If they don’t manage these in a healthy way, they will drive them into themselves and get sicker. Do you remember that some can have what they call false charm?

Jill: False charm, interesting.

Brian: An example, notice some of these individuals that come into our program, a magnetic attractive charming exterior, we wonder why they are here, they appear so cool. But when you peel the onion back layer by layer, what you find is a scared child. I do not mean to be derogatory but you have to see that many times we find addicts doing this, they cover up that scare with a lot of shimmering glittering things shiny cars, big homes large bank accounts, trips abroad and as a result that covers up what they are really dealing with on the inside. Have you ever seen that? When we do free consultations we see it and it is amazing, also, not only do they come across that way but I have noticed too that many are very strong pleasure seekers. Ok, if you would like to enter this conversation we want you to call, 770-226-0920 and if you are outside the Atlanta area it is 1-888-920-2665. Give us a call and we want to hear what your experiences have been.

Commercial Break

Jill: 770-226-0920 that number again, get your cell phone and dial 770-226-0920 we are coming into the last segments of our show so please call and get in on the conversation and ask a question or if you feel like you need to talk just call us. 770-226-0920. So Brian here is my big question, what happened to these people, we just gave all of these characteristics, so what happened.

Brian: Part of the big word is immaturity.

Jill: That’s too easy (laughter)

Brian: Easy word to say but a very difficult characteristic to self ascribe. What do I mean by that? What we find in our addiction treatment what we find the characteristics among many of our clients is that they have failed to grow emotionally and we find that as people mature and they first grow they are self centered, demanding and they cry and get fed. They throw a tantrum and something positive happens for them, that’s great when you are 2 or 3 years old, but imagine if you are like that when you are 25 years old or

Jill: 35

Brian: Or 55. Many don’t think they act this way but many times those with addiction that come to our program started drinking around 10 – 12 years old.

Jill: Exactly

Brian: We know the brain matures from back to front. What is on the front is the pre frontal cortex, that is responsible for good thought processes. When we find people that have arrested that they start to have the immature characteristics. What I said earlier, many times there is a scared lonely or shamed boy or girl within many of our clients who come in because they are feeling that they are not worthwhile and therefore they cover up with the external things. I talk about the internal and there are a lot of pleasure seeking going on even power seeking ok? And if there is power seeking guess what? Attention seeking goes along with that

Jill: Absolutely

Brian: If they can’t get the attention by human relationships they will look for power and attention somewhere else and behind that is a scared child. That is not derogatory, we all have had our issues and so many many of thsese who have had these problems have possibly come from abusive environments

Jill: Or neglected

Brian: Or possibly on the other side they have been given too much

Jill: Too much too fast

Brian: Right and thinking things will make them emotionally secure and then they find out that is not what they needed they needed positive relations. So, what got them here? Because they really believe in their immaturity that they are the center of their universe and the whole world revolves around them. It is scary to realize even subconsciously that it doesn’t

Jill: So everyone is supposed to be in orbit around them.

Brian: Can you imagine if they are not? You want to grab them and bring them in and make sure they stay within your sphere

Jill: You will display any type of personality to keep them there.

Brian: And that is manipulation. In fact when we do our addiction treatment we have a terminology in our program. It is called king or queen baby.

Jill: laughter, ok what are the facial reactions when you say that in class?

Brian: Angry, how dare you call me a baby. And I understand that but what we have to understand is the words. King, baby, Queen, baby. King or Queen have what? Control and power and the baby part is that it is immaturity and so it is almost like the idea of having a child king. Trying to rule the roost. That is what we see and that is where the conflict comes up, they want to control and so many times the own emotional immaturity is there so they are unable and therefore constantly grabbing for power and have difficulty to bring their lives in control. In fact, some of these characteristics, if we take a look at this idea of the king baby for example, one of those characteristics is feelings of omnipotence and if you are the center of the universe you would think you have all of the power and how is that typically expressed? Control over other people. It is funny, those that have the power rarely try to express it but the ones that don’t are the ones that are always trying to prove it and that is what we see so many times so if you have a loved one out there and you see this characteristic manifested in your home and it is driving you crazy and causing chaos, that is another thing as a result with that going on it is no wonder that the family is also asking themselves how they can manage this and asking themselves what they can do. A big characteristic among co-addicteds is they try to fix it and make it work. They also have an inability to accept frustration and so if you begin looking at your loved one and every time you try to reason with them or try to bring understanding to try and bring limits to the situation what are you going to have?

Jill: Frustration and

Brian: Arguments, all of the time. A constant battle and maybe you are wondering why your household is in constant chaos and you don’t see effective communication. Maybe you need to address an addiction issue, call us, 770-226-0920 and outside Atlanta 1-888-920-2665. We would love to hear from you and our break is coming up, 770-226-0920.

Commercial Break

Jill: We have Amy in Atlanta, Hey Amy we have about two minutes, let’s see if we can help you out

Amy: I was calling because of my family member and she doesn’t have an outright addiction to alcohol or drugs but she is a manipulating and controlling personality and our family is struggling in our relationship with her and what steps can we take would you recommend therapy, or dealing with our relationship with her going forward.

Brian: We offer a free consultation and I would recommend that if there is a concern and they are willing to come in and talk about what we can do to help her it would be great and you can go to our website and set up an appointment and we would be happy to sit down with her. First of all try to address your concerns about how her behavior is impacting you personally and that might help them get to understand that their behavior is unacceptable and they need to change, not placing blame but saying how you are being affected and then again they see themselves as the center of the universe.

Amy: Well she definitely does and it is a constant battle because she doesn’t understand and doesn’t see anything but herself being affected.

Jill: A lot of that loses power when you begin to understand where she is coming from and we do talk to family members as well as the loved one with the problem, but it is important for you to understand what is going on and why is this behavior coming out of her. That will help disarm this in the household.

Amy: I just don’t understand her, it is an on going problem and she has refused therapy and that sort of thing

Brian: That is normal

Amy: It is hard to acknowledge the issue,

Brian: Go to the website and we would love a free sit down with you and help you with alternatives and we would love to have a chance to process that with you.

Amy: What is the website again?

Brian: Breakthroughaddictionrecovery.com

Jill: Thank you Amy, we have one more caller, Gene, can you do it in a minute?

Gene: I have six brothers and sisters and they are all alcohol and drugs and I didn’t do it but it is driving me crazy because you can’t talk to any of them, they jump on you, hang up the phone, violent and chaos and I call Alanon one time but it is like what he was talking about the baby, they are all the center of attention and they don’t think anything is wrong, they don’t want to hear it and it is at the point where I am walking even if not in the same town I am walking on eggshells.

Jill: Chaos with a capital C that is your life because of alcohol and drugs and the behavior, here it is Gene, like we were talking about with Amy, you can understand the disease and the characteristics coming out of them and that will give you power.

Brian: I appreciate that, Gene, we have a Family Education Program and I would highly recommend that you call our office and go to the website or call 770-734-8091 and we can get you the help that you need with your family issues. I would like to talk to you about the Family Education so you will get the help you need to stay sane amongst the chaos.

Gene: Number again

Brian: 770-734-8091, we have to run, our time is gone

Gene: Thank you so much

Jill: Gene thank you, and we may continue this next wee, King Baby Queen Baby, you want to hear more, tune in next week at 3PM on Saturday, and have a wonderful rainy afternoon, thanks Atlanta.

“King Baby” 

Brian:  Good Afternoon

Atlanta, I am Brian Fujii and this is the Breakthrough Addiction Recovery Hour. Jill:  Hey Brian Brian:  Did you have a happy fourth? 

Jill:  I did something I had never done before, I went downtown to a friends loft and watched Turner Field Show and Centennial Show Brian:  Simultaneous? Jill:  Centennial first and barely over the building and Turner was way up there and it was fantastic Brian:  Well we had a couple of shows in my little town of

Villa Rica

 Jill:  Did they get the sparklers out?  Brian:  yeah they did(laughter) Jill:  I live in

Stone Mountain and I usually go to a secret place and no one will ever know where it is.  (laughter) Brian:  I tell you because it is the fourth of July weekend, I want those lines to light up like the fireworks. Jill:  Ok, alright well…. 

Brian:  What do you think, let’s challenge the audience to that, last week we had all of our callers in the last few minutes and so I want them to get some time to ask their questions and call in at 770-226-0920 or if you are outside the area it is 1-888-920-6225 the local number is 770-226 -0920.  You know we were going to continue this discussion that we had last week Jill on dealing with this personality concept called King Baby. Jill:  King Baby Brian:  People will say what are you talking about?  Many times we find that people coming into addiction treatment have a kind of a attitude about how they are going to be dealing with their addiction so my question to the audience today is have you ever wondered why you or a loved one act in ways while under the influence that seem to violate every core value that you ever held dear or sacred. Jill:  But when you say that I bet people are saying, “Well what is a core value?”  What you think of… 

Brian:  How about honesty? Jill:  Ok a good one Brian:  To start truth, honesty, Jill:  Kindness 

Brian:  Good, kindness, one of  the things we find is that many times when individuals are slowly but surely moving from the addicted phase to the dependence we find that these characteristics only begin to get exemplified.  Now, one of the things we will talk about today is what it is about a hijacked brain.  That is when the brain has been changed as a result of over use of alcohol or other drugs.  The brain will no longer function like it normally should.  Ok, and because of that we are sitting here trying to figure out how we are going to get along with those people in our lives and if we are constantly trying to figure out how to use our drug of choice get our drug or hide it and overcome effects that is a lot of time. Jill:  Absolutely, what I think about people as they are kicking back on a Saturday, yesterday was pretty busy and a lot of family members are out there thinking, “Well yesterday was another banner day for our family, you know, Uncle so and so or Dad or Mom or Brother surely showed up and did what they always do for our family gatherings which is ruin them by drinking or trying to get high while they were there or that is the only way that they could enjoy this day, the fourth of July.  I am sure a lot of people are out there thinking you know I am sick of this and not really knowing what to do with the emotions today because of the anger toward your loved one from their behavior yesterday.   Brian:  Again, we are not saying no one should ever drink, it is a legal substance, we are talking about those that have a difficulty in managing it because the concept of beer boat and barbeque is the name of the game for the fourth of July, (laughter) Jill:  The fourth….. 

Brian:  We are at a break Jill and this question is to our audienceCall us at 770-226-0920 again 770-226-0920 and we will be right back. Commercial Break Jill:  If you are caught up in this web of alcohol dependency and drug addiction we are talking about characteristics of family members that are caught up in this difficult struggle and we have really you know we have hit a point right there at the end of the last segment where I just really wanted to know what do these families do with the here and now. Brian:  That is a fantastic question and we get this a lot with calls to Breakthrough Addiction Recovery after hours even.  They are asking us what to do and that is a perfect question how to realize that they can get the help and this is what they need to do.  If they are dealing with the person struggling with addiction or having problems with dependence on a substance they need to let that individual know what their behavior is causing the family life.   

Jill:  Right Brian:  IF they don’t the individual is clueless, now many think the person should know but they really don’t understand how their behavior is hurting them and I have heard this so much Jill, even at family education that when people say they spoke to the family member and they said, “I did not realize that my drinking hurt you.”  Can you imagine that?  That is what we hear and when they finally realize that it is their drinking hurts others they have in their mind a picture of the horror of that and realize they are not just hurting themselves.  I think that could keep the behavior and that piece of information could be a real eye opener and so what can the family t\do to first of all to take care of themselves because if not they will become as sick as the individual and we see this often where the people will begin trying to take care and make excuses for begin trying to hide and keep family secrets and as a result their lives become even more involved with the addictedr.  We have a call from Sharon in Roswell, welcome

Sharon!

Sharon:  Thanks

 Brian:  How can we help you today? Sharon:  I have a friend who is, Hi Jill, this is

Sharon from Midtown Jill:  Oh, Hey!  Oh this is great, thanks for calling in

Sharon.

 Sharon:  I have a friend that um, is going to AA and he is bi polar and there is a problem with drugs and alcohol and I think anyway that he is not on medication and is going to AA he really should be on medication and still overcome this but he thinks he can do it without meds.  Brian:  At Breakthrough we hear this a lot and we wanted to help people to know that they need to work on both issues simultaneously let me give you a point that one of the things that has a lot of misconception in many recovering communities and that is you know that you can’t be on any kind of any medications and still be considered clean, but the thing people need to understand is that first of all bipolar medications don’t get you high and number two is that it is not addictive.  Alright, so medication is very necessary infact we understand that if a person is feeling ups and downs and mood swings and trying to find control of their feelings if they don’t have some form of medications, they don’t know what to do.  So, they self medicate with alcohol or drugs, in fact that gets them started initially, and we wonder which came first and the point is they use to treat a psychiatric condition.  So, it is really critical that that person adheres to whatever if he is seeing a psychiatrist many times we see this happening that once they get their medicine and getting emotions stable their drinking begins to diminish. 

Sharon:  Yes. Jill:  And Sharon sometimes we also see that the chicken or egg argument also is the addiction producing those bipolar type of behaviors or is the bipolar organic brain problem causing the addiction and many times you have to have a person for a long period of time to try to figure out which is going on.  When they get to a point even when they are being treated for bipolar, the brain still is addicted to the substances and that is another problem that you have to address also.  So, it is very difficult thing to pull apart and understand.  I just think that you know having this person be involved in this support group like AA is great but also having people you know caring people like you to discuss with him and also maybe having you know like a doctor or someone helping you with this other problem over a period of time and help you see what is really going on, are you self medicating or are you truly addicted and dependent or you know what is happening?  It is very difficult um, situation to deal with and there isn’t just a simple answer, it really takes time and a marathon um., not the microwave approach it really is a marathon. 

Sharon:  Yes I see

 Brian:  How is your friend dealing with this, is this a struggle for support and yet dealing with criticism. 

Sharon:  I don’t know, I haven’t talked to him about it this much but um, he is not somebody that needs to be in my life, shall we say, right now, (laughter) Jill:  Sharon you are really getting out there personal, over there with we are not on the phone

Sharon, (laughter), teasing you, I am so glad that you called,

Sharon:  Jill probably knows who he is…. Jill:  Just the fact that you have his welfare in mind means that you have an open door to make these comments to him or even through another friend and many times people can be very resistant to other types of addiction treatment so you have to be very careful you know that they aren’t uh, doing something to please you and you really have to be very careful how you approach this and maybe someone else could help  Brian:  Yes, more objectivity and well most important thing is to take care of yourself and don’t become deeply involved and keep objective.  It is very easy to get manipulated and again this is why we talk about what loved ones can do at this time and that is be aware of the issue um, talk about it and at the same time be very aware that you don’t need to be taking care or trying to fix or solve the problem.  So many 

Sharon:  I was very codependent in this relationship for a long time but praise God not anymore.

 Jill:  Thanks

Sharon for calling and bringing this to the forefront, call me anytime girl, we will talk soon. Brian:  Have a great weekend 

Sharon:  You too

 Jill:  770-226-0920 and Sharon brings up a very interesting comment and you know many um organic mental illnesses can be underlying a lot of the behaviors we are talking about today and there is no cookie cutter approach there is many types of things to do in order to understand this and commit the time to understand it.   Brian:  Also, because you have this bipolar disorder it is a psychiatric condition and I really want our listening audience to understand the position at Breakthrough is that we see medication and addiction treatment are both vital.   Jill:  We are coming to the end of the segment, 7670-226-0920, call in and we will be right back. Commercial Break 

Jill:  (laughter) we are talking about a term to describe behavior called “King Baby” for those Brian:  Those that have dependency on drugs or alcohol Jill:  That sounds like the opposite but once you discuss what those characteristics are people will recognize it and know that it makes sense.   Brian:  Many times someone will come into addiction treatment and there is enomolie and on one hand they feel like a conqueror and the other they have control of nothing.  They don’t know why and when you use the words king baby, this is a booklet we use in our program and by Tom Cunningham and it is wonderful and it is good, as you read through it, by the way there is also a “Queen Baby” too and we will discuss that later, we will not beat up only on the guys, the women have their place too.  So, today we are talking about the male characteristics as they develop and get their lives back… 

Jill:  Wait a minute Brian, I see in reading these characteristics females have these too, does it have to be so gender specific Brain:  No, there are some general characteristics to both and then you find out that in some of these that we talk about today they are more specific to men and some other cases we talk about the women on the queen baby side and they have some characteristics that apply to female.  You take a look at what it means when someone has infantile or immature behavior and let’s look at the developmental process as infants and they are just in the womb or after birth when they are hungry they cry, when sad, they yell, when they need attention they scream and they get the attention immediately.  And so as we look at that characteristic that is the baby side and the other is the king side, when they feel that they control everything, being the center of the universe.  Being the center of their own universe they think they are the center of others but…. Jill:  My neice acted like that a lot and we would come running after hearing the yelling and she figured it out! Brian:  Family members respond that way and the addict and the alcoholic see this and know that tantrums or withdrawals get them a lot of attention.   That is why this last caller I wanted her to take care of herself and not fix anyone, that is what happens, as a person who begins to scream loud and throw tantrums or sometimes even do this more appealing ways they are more charming um flashy cars and girls and jewelry, big homes and all of the trappings of the armor that I use the word armor because they put that in front as a way to protect the soft inner part.   

Jill:  Umm Brian:  That is when we talk about that king baby, the baby part is the immature part and they have not learned to deal with some of life’s stressors and have to put up the protective armor and flash the cymbals and the smooth talking and the suave exterior that seems to be able to keep all people at arms length.  You will notice that most times most in our listening audience that if you have found some with these characteristics, but emotionally it doesn’t match, that is what we are talking about.  770-226-0920 if you are interested in this con