AUGUST 16, 2008

Brian: Welcome Atlanta to the Breakthrough Addicition Recovery Hour, I am Brian Fujii your host for the hour and hope you are having a wonderful day. There is a lot of activity in Atlanta today and hope you are keeping yourself safe and we have a wonderful show set up for you and today we are going to be talking about spirituality and recovery. You may wonder what that has to do with recovery but you will learn a lot today of how spirituality plays a critical role in staying clean and sober. My guest today is Leslie and she has a lot of recovery under her belt and so we have her to talk with us about the topic. Welcome Leslie,

Leslie: Thanks so glad to be here

Brian: We will be discussing how our spiritual component, we get confused sometimes between religion and spirituality, how do you look at it?

Leslie: Well, I think that it is different for everyone but I don’t think um, in recovery spirituality is looked at as a path um, and I would like to preface before speaking that I am not an expert on recovery or spirituality and this is my experience. Um, I don’t think that religion is necessary for recovery but it can certainly can be integrated into recovery, I believe recovery promotes spirituality because of the open ended path that allows for each person to have their own unique experience with their religion or how they relate to a higher power and how they come to believe in a higher power where it is a little less dogmatic and a little less close ended because the nature of alcoholics and addicts is that they are very defiant.

Brian: Yes, in that area of denial and minimizing, you know I read an article that said an addict still using has a strong tendency toward self centeredness. Everything is about them, everything is revolving around them. Then at some point they have to realize that that kind of thought process really begins to interfere with the significant relationships in their lives. As you begin looking at recovery, it is trying to realize that there are others in your world and how they need in some way to begin re-integrating themselves back into those meaningful relationships. Many times in addiction treatment a lot of our clients will say that they know they have a problem but I have a problem with trust. The big thing is that their family has no trust in them anymore and there is a void a huge gap and I think spirituality helps address the concept

Leslie: It is said often that believing in something bigger than ourselves. If I am the center of the universe then that doesn’t leave me very open to build relationships and look outside of myself for any purpose. For family or for job or my community anything like that so I think that what that does more than anything is that it really gets people to if they have a connection with God it is much easier in my experience to have a connection with others.

Brian: I think that idea is a real key component because we find that people through boredom, isolation or lonliness has nothing to do with connectivity and as a result the tendency to self medicate and feel better. This is a call in show and we would love to have your opinion and this may be a topic that you would like to talk about and give us a call and participate and the discussion, 770-226-0920 again that number is 770-226-0920 and if you are outside the Atlanta area it is 888-920-2625. We are learning here about connectedness and I think that is certainly one of the major issues in addiction is that more and more a person moves into addiction the more and more isolated they become.

Leslie: Yes, that is my experience,

Brian: Do they feel more depressed? More anxiety?

Leslie: For me, I felt a lot of anger, um, for me when I was isolating myself and getting into the depths of my alcoholism and addiction and it was more about handling everything myself and being independent and fixing all of my own problems and I didn’t need anyone. My family is extremely supportive and loving and I didn’t want anything to do with them on that level, but I think a lot of that comes from shame and I know for me a lot comes from shame because the principles I had before drinking and using had gone away by the time I was in the depths of my using. I was ashamed of that and everyone around me that knew me before could see that in me, so I did not want them around and so it was a lot of anger and that is actually what ended leading me to my spirituality because in the beginning people would say try relying on God for that for little and big things, I would think that couldn’t work, I did try anyway and tried to look at others lives that had their act together. That happened over and over until I started to believe it myself. I would rely on God for something because it had worked in the past so maybe it will work again, and now I know that it will work,

Brian: It becomes a part of you right. As we begin to experience that relationship and the ability to communicate and connect with that spiritual component of ourselves, we really begin to have a confidence and the ability to have that inner peace that comes about when you have that because you don’t feel as if you carry the burden yourself.

Leslie: Absolutely, I talk about it being the hustle in my head when I am trying to figure out if what I want to do is in my own will or if I want to do God’s will and when I stop that arguing back and forth trying to justify it and find an excuse and have that sense of inner peace, then I know that it is God’s will.

Brian: This topic may be hitting a nerve so give us a call, 770-226-0920 or outside our area, 888-920-2625. Today our friend Leslie is with us discussing spirituality playing a role in recovery and she has a lot of recovery time under her belt and has gone through the throws of moving from isolation and abandonment and guilt and shame and so we do know it deals with self esteem. We are getting close to the break so let’s take a look at that piece of how guilt and shame impacts a person’s self esteem and how that sometimes moves them to self medicate to feel better, ok? The number here is 770-226-0920 and give us a call we would love to have you as a part of this discussion and we will be right back after the break.

Commercial Break

Brian: Make sure that if you try to get into the park today that you go to the Celebrate Wellness Pavillion and go by our booth, later on in the show, my co hort there is going to give us a call and an update as to what is going on at our booth. So, if you are on your way to the Celebrate Freedom stop by and look at some of the items we have there. Ok, Leslie, I appreciate again you being with us, spirituality and recovery we were at the close of the first break what we had talked about was the feeling of guilt or shame that one feels so many times when they are using and I know that many times tied to that is this feeling of perfectionism. I have got to be good enough and I know that many times the people I work with have that feeling that they are not good enough or smart enough and can’t do things well enough and therefore the guilt or feeling of low self esteem creeps in and until they can address that what we find out is that they move to self medication. Take a look at this idea of recovery and then having that spiritual component to help redefine us because after all we are a complete human being when you look at that.

Leslie: For me growing up I never felt good enough and I could not tell you why I didn’t because it did not come from my family I briefly in my teens started going to church on my own and the way I interpreted it was that I needed to be perfect and that was not the churches fault, it was a wonderful church it was just they way I had interpreted it and I have always been very resistant to asking for help and so when I found drugs and alcohol not that long after I started having trouble interpreting what the church was trying to teach me and it took away that feeling of needing to be perfect and then I didn’t care but getting sober I still again that feeling of not being good enough returned and I could not tell you what good enough was and I knew I did not feel that way. So, the way and this is sort of come to me over the years, um, and just to let people know um, I have not had a drop of alcohol since December of 1994 and no drugs since April of 1995. It has taken me quite some time to get to this point of how I believe but the way I believe about spirituality and God now is um, I believe that if I do my best and I have to be reasonable with myself on what my best is, but if I do my best in every situation I learn from it and try to do different next time and I feel I have approval from God and no other approval is bigger for me. I believe that with all of my heart and I believe that in my gut and what I believe in my head that I am trying to get into my heart and gut is that God loves me and approves of me all the time no matter what. Right now it is in my head and I don’t know why it is in my heart

Brian: That is a perfect example of how differences between and real healthy spirituality and in contrast to what we may call toxic faith where so many people have this preconceived notion that all that their spirituality consists of is just the injection whereas where you have genuine spirituality we realize that it is acceptance and love and understanding and compassion.

Leslie: And I do think that that is the teaching of many religious practices but I believe it is interpreted a bit askew from the love and acceptance or how you can achieve that.

Brian: When you think like what you said initially that when you yourself feel you are not good enough or smart enough, then those particular feelings of rejection and non acceptance really is something fabricated from within because we don’t feel good about ourselves, not because of our spiritual component but reality is that many times when we don’t feel good about ourselves we ascribe those attributes to someone else that we consider is judging us rather than liking us just the way we are,.

Leslie: I have a friend that says God thinks she is the coolest thing since sliced bread and I love that.

Brian: Hey, we have Jill on the phone from the festival,

Jill: Hey Brian the traffic getting here was not as bad but it is huge! They have got all of the bands going on there are people everywhere and the special Wellness Pavilion is amazing with exhibitors um, people are everywhere Brian and it has been an exciting day.

Brian: Do we have a lot of those people coming by?

Jill: You know when someone walks by they stand there for a minute then all of a sudden say how they would like to share something about a friend or a parent. It opens up all sorts of doors to talk about people with the struggle of addiction and there are so many here where it touches their lives in one way or another.

Brian: Being out there and exposed I think to know that we are a resource for this area and those that are struggling is probably an eye opener and a lot of folks don’t know how addiction treatment can be provided.

Jill: WGKA has a huge booth out here and they were doing some live shows and the morning drive guy Joel was talking and it was kind of exciting and 104.7 FISH, Mercy Me and a lot of great bands, if you are heading this way, ignore the traffic and come on out for an evening of free music and come by and see us at our booth here in the Wellness Pavilion.

Brian: What are the hours for the event?

Jill: Actually it started early this morning they had a huge crowd because Third Day played early and now it will go to about 10 or 11 tonight. So if you come down now listen to WGKA all of the way and it is going to be fun because it is getting more and more crowded as the day goes on and it is a light happy atmosphere and they are having fireworks after the concerts.

Brian: Well Jill we are at the break and I just know that we will continue to let people know about the booth and it is right there in that pavilion. I will keep pushing it.

Jill: We are giving away some music cds for folks in recovery with some encouraging music. It helps in the journey, so come on down everyone.

Brian: Thanks for the call.

Commercial Break

Brian: What can we focus on in our last few minutes? Let’s ask you to come back after the break what one or two of those values you have found very important to you personally to maintain sobriety. 770-226-0920 we will be right back.

Commercial Break

Brian: Welcome back to Breakthrough Addiction Recovery Hour, my name is Brian Fujii and we are sharing on the topic of spirituality and recovery. You know before that last break we had a call from Jill Mattingly at the Conyers Horse Park where they are celebrating freedom, so if you are on your way, join us at the booth and I know Jill would be so happy to hear from you. Leslie, as we came to the break you read off a wonderful list of qualities that I know many people struggle with in their areas of recovery because going back again to values, one of the things we have seen in addiction treatment is that as people move into addiction many times their values are compromised and then their relationships also and so many times people come in to addiction treatment and they are feeling so bad because you know now they are either struggling at home or at work and children can feel detached and alienated and so this list that you read about recovering some of the key core values are so critical in helping people to re-establish their own feelings of self esteem because we know that when people are in this area of addiction, self esteem gets diminished. How did that list that you read could you share one or two that are significant.

Leslie: Well I think the first one for me was really significant was honesty because not only was I lying to others but the person I lied to the most was myself and in trying to get better in anything that I was trying to accomplish if I wasn’t honest with myself I was not from a realistic platform and not looking at what the problem really is then how am I ever going to work on it. Um, so for me that was a huge one. The other was my favorite was humility and I have um, a great quote about humility “Humility is an honest appraisal of who and what we really are followed by sincere attempt to become what we could be.” That is something I keep in mind on a daily basis most days.

Brian: We have to have that vision of what we could be and strive for it, I know that is certainly one of the areas or the major is humility when people are in the throws of addiction it is truly as in the beginning essential self centeredness as if the world revolves around the addict and until then when they realize that there are others in the world to help us and support us and give us that sense of well being that we know we can have, we isolate ourselves from the real source. 770-226-0920 again, 770-226-0920 is the phone number to call and get in on this engaging conversation.

Another area Leslie is you know, what is security, we talk about people saying that they do not feel secure or feel like they are floating they don’t feel anchored especially in addiction when individuals are trying to find a sense of centeredness and the way they feel that they are in some way um, anchored instead of feeling that they are just scattered. I sense a scatteredness and in that there is a desire to try to find focus and without focus we find people using in order for them to get that focus. When you look at the word security it comes along with part of the list you gave to us, um, I am wondering what it is that when people look at security are they afraid of it being destroyed or what is it? Are they afraid of clean and sober?

Leslie: That is where the honesty comes in. My security is based on the knowledge and belief that I have that God is always there for me. Um, you know and that God is excited when I am excited and if I am kind of strained from what I know is the right thing for me to do, he just waits for me to turn around and ask his help. I think the only thing that could destroy me is if I turn my back on God and I know that it is very difficult for people to in recovery but I have seen people survive deadly diseases and I have seen people survive disaster and people losing their children in recovery and then stay sober through all of these things.

Brian: How do they do it. It is so difficult when a life circumstance and they feel victimized and in that victimization they feel that something or someone has done it to them again and so in that victimization how can we help our audience maybe to realize that you know problems do occur whether you are drinking or drugging or not. One of the things I share is that just because you stop does not mean life’s problems go away, in fact they could get more intense because of your sobriety.

Leslie: That is where a lot of people get off track because of the intense and immense grief, and a lot of addicts you know we don’t want to feel um, and so very strong feelings like that I can see how they can be overwhelming and what get’s them through is faith.

Brian: We are coming to the break Leslie let’s dovetail on that because faith comes from within and not without and it is something that we must realize is an inner resource, 770-226-0920. We will be right back.

Commercial Break

Brian: Again Leslie, recovery truly is not an “I” program it is a “We” program because many think they can do it on their own and they have tried their best to do it that way and I would say to the audience that you need to stop doing it that way, it doesn’t work so try something else. A community that is in recovery you have a support group as we do called Smart Recovery on Thursdays from 6 – 7 pm and it is a growing amazing group. They are supportive and call each other on the other stuff. It is a wonderful experience and also many as they come through the program to understand the addiction and the medical aspects of their addiction and how their brains have changed it has changed lives because information is powerful, so as we take a look at this whole concept of recovery and we understand that people need to turn back to the core values that is going to be a key as people take that as one other component helping themselves stay clean and sober. We are at the end of our show and so to our audience what would be one thought you could leave with them to help someone that is struggling today.

Leslie: I think that God is with us all the time we just have to call on him.

Brian: Thank you very much and I hope you have gotten something out of our program. If you are on I20 headed to the Horsepark go by and say hi to Jill at the Celebrate Wellness Pavilion. We will be back next week. Take Care.