July 5, 2008 - King Baby
BREAKTHROUGH ADDICTION RECOVERY RADIO HOUR JULY 5, 2008
“King Baby”
Brian: Good Afternoon
Atlanta, I am Brian Fujii and this is the Breakthrough Addiction Recovery Hour. Jill: Hey Brian Brian: Did you have a happy fourth?
Jill: I did something I had never done before, I went downtown to a friends loft and watched Turner Field Show and Centennial Show Brian: Simultaneous? Jill: Centennial first and barely over the building and Turner was way up there and it was fantastic Brian: Well we had a couple of shows in my little town of
Villa Rica
Jill: Did they get the sparklers out? Brian: yeah they did(laughter) Jill: I live in
Stone Mountain and I usually go to a secret place and no one will ever know where it is. (laughter) Brian: I tell you because it is the fourth of July weekend, I want those lines to light up like the fireworks. Jill: Ok, alright well….
Brian: What do you think, let’s challenge the audience to that, last week we had all of our callers in the last few minutes and so I want them to get some time to ask their questions and call in at 770-226-0920 or if you are outside the area it is 1-888-920-6225 the local number is 770-226 -0920. You know we were going to continue this discussion that we had last week Jill on dealing with this personality concept called King Baby. Jill: King Baby Brian: People will say what are you talking about? Many times we find that people coming into addiction treatment have a kind of a attitude about how they are going to be dealing with their addiction so my question to the audience today is have you ever wondered why you or a loved one act in ways while under the influence that seem to violate every core value that you ever held dear or sacred. Jill: But when you say that I bet people are saying, “Well what is a core value?” What you think of…
Brian: How about honesty? Jill: Ok a good one Brian: To start truth, honesty, Jill: Kindness
Brian: Good, kindness, one of the things we find is that many times when individuals are slowly but surely moving from the addicted phase to the dependence we find that these characteristics only begin to get exemplified. Now, one of the things we will talk about today is what it is about a hijacked brain. That is when the brain has been changed as a result of over use of alcohol or other drugs. The brain will no longer function like it normally should. Ok, and because of that we are sitting here trying to figure out how we are going to get along with those people in our lives and if we are constantly trying to figure out how to use our drug of choice get our drug or hide it and overcome effects that is a lot of time. Jill: Absolutely, what I think about people as they are kicking back on a Saturday, yesterday was pretty busy and a lot of family members are out there thinking, “Well yesterday was another banner day for our family, you know, Uncle so and so or Dad or Mom or Brother surely showed up and did what they always do for our family gatherings which is ruin them by drinking or trying to get high while they were there or that is the only way that they could enjoy this day, the fourth of July. I am sure a lot of people are out there thinking you know I am sick of this and not really knowing what to do with the emotions today because of the anger toward your loved one from their behavior yesterday. Brian: Again, we are not saying no one should ever drink, it is a legal substance, we are talking about those that have a difficulty in managing it because the concept of beer boat and barbeque is the name of the game for the fourth of July, (laughter) Jill: The fourth…..
Brian: People want to have fun and what we are trying to do is reach out to those individuals that have found that the drinking has really been getting out of control Jill: Our number is 770-226-0920 if you want to call and talk a little about what is going on , you may have had someone make a little show out of the ordinary yesterday or maybe it was ordinary for the holidays or family gatherings and you want to call and discuss or ask questions or get in on the conversation call us, 770-226-0920. Our toll free number is 1-88-920-2665 and if you want to call your sister who went back home to another state and you want them to hear this you can also call her and say go to www.920wgka.com and listen on line and she can listen with you. Anyway Brian, you were going into a little bit about core values leaving into different behaviors when you lose those core values. Brian: Yes, Jill when you go back to the hijacked brain, that brain is no longer acting and doing what it normally does and as a result the brain is making decisions that many consider inappropriate. You have talked about that. Most folks when they go to a party do not say they are going to get drunk…. Jill: I don’t know about that Brian a lot of people….I would see that there are some that plan for it. Brian: (laughter) we are trying to help those individuals that are sick and tired. They want to have fun and don’t know how especially with the …..you talked about the core values, one thing we understand, honesty, openness, kindness, these things seem to begin to fly out the window as you all know and people begin using more alcohol and drugs and guess what happens, because of that behavior they start having other emotional consequences, and we talk about the fact that if we don’t understand negative consequences the behavior continues on. Then at some point they say, ok, why do I feel shame and guilt. As a result they are feeling, guess what when they feel this way they become defensive and in that behavior and someone tries to say to them that they are needing to wake up and smell the coffee, our family is falling apart and as a result they begin feeling as a reaction to that they start feeling hostile and rage, false charm begins to come in and you will see it is a way that people use to manipulate their way in life. When some people are so charming so eloquent and they are trying to do everything they can as a manipulative behavior. This is one of the things we see in our program is when individuals that can tend to make up for things they do it in this way that it causes a lot of bitterness and resentment to begin emerging within the family. Jill: What are these family members going to do with the behavior, that is what concerns me, it seems like you are in the midst of a lot of dysfunction when you are handling the person that is going through all of these behaviors and emotions. What are the family members to do with that? Brian: That is the challenge we have because the family themselves feel like they are getting sick and part of what we do at Breakthrough is that we provide families with good information with our Family Education Program and that program is very very helpful because we do it each Wednesday night and we help our family members understand the addictive process, the recovery process, and how they themselves are becoming more and more dysfunctional as a result of trying to adapt and accommodate that person in their life who is causing so much chaos and that is what we see, chaos. Jill: Brian, I still go back to the daily, the daily problem of what to do with someone that is just behaving badly and you have to live with that that to me is you know I mean I think everyone out there listening probably has had a situation where there has been a person in the household that is not behaving well and usually they work through it and it goes by but when we are talking about alcohol dependency or drug addiction this can be a daily wake up to the butterflies in your stomach and your heart palpitating and worrying what is going to happen every day. I just really am you know at a loss you know coming to a family education program is definitely going to help but what about right now? I know that there are people listening that are struggling with this very thing. They don’t want to hear the key in the lock because they dread this loved one coming home. I am really empathizing
Brian: We are at a break Jill and this question is to our audienceCall us at 770-226-0920 again 770-226-0920 and we will be right back. Commercial Break Jill: If you are caught up in this web of alcohol dependency and drug addiction we are talking about characteristics of family members that are caught up in this difficult struggle and we have really you know we have hit a point right there at the end of the last segment where I just really wanted to know what do these families do with the here and now. Brian: That is a fantastic question and we get this a lot with calls to Breakthrough Addiction Recovery after hours even. They are asking us what to do and that is a perfect question how to realize that they can get the help and this is what they need to do. If they are dealing with the person struggling with addiction or having problems with dependence on a substance they need to let that individual know what their behavior is causing the family life.
Jill: Right Brian: IF they don’t the individual is clueless, now many think the person should know but they really don’t understand how their behavior is hurting them and I have heard this so much Jill, even at family education that when people say they spoke to the family member and they said, “I did not realize that my drinking hurt you.” Can you imagine that? That is what we hear and when they finally realize that it is their drinking hurts others they have in their mind a picture of the horror of that and realize they are not just hurting themselves. I think that could keep the behavior and that piece of information could be a real eye opener and so what can the family t\do to first of all to take care of themselves because if not they will become as sick as the individual and we see this often where the people will begin trying to take care and make excuses for begin trying to hide and keep family secrets and as a result their lives become even more involved with the addictedr. We have a call from Sharon in Roswell, welcome
Sharon!
Sharon: Thanks
Brian: How can we help you today? Sharon: I have a friend who is, Hi Jill, this is
Sharon from Midtown Jill: Oh, Hey! Oh this is great, thanks for calling in
Sharon.
Sharon: I have a friend that um, is going to AA and he is bi polar and there is a problem with drugs and alcohol and I think anyway that he is not on medication and is going to AA he really should be on medication and still overcome this but he thinks he can do it without meds. Brian: At Breakthrough we hear this a lot and we wanted to help people to know that they need to work on both issues simultaneously let me give you a point that one of the things that has a lot of misconception in many recovering communities and that is you know that you can’t be on any kind of any medications and still be considered clean, but the thing people need to understand is that first of all bipolar medications don’t get you high and number two is that it is not addictive. Alright, so medication is very necessary infact we understand that if a person is feeling ups and downs and mood swings and trying to find control of their feelings if they don’t have some form of medications, they don’t know what to do. So, they self medicate with alcohol or drugs, in fact that gets them started initially, and we wonder which came first and the point is they use to treat a psychiatric condition. So, it is really critical that that person adheres to whatever if he is seeing a psychiatrist many times we see this happening that once they get their medicine and getting emotions stable their drinking begins to diminish.
Sharon: Yes. Jill: And Sharon sometimes we also see that the chicken or egg argument also is the addiction producing those bipolar type of behaviors or is the bipolar organic brain problem causing the addiction and many times you have to have a person for a long period of time to try to figure out which is going on. When they get to a point even when they are being treated for bipolar, the brain still is addicted to the substances and that is another problem that you have to address also. So, it is very difficult thing to pull apart and understand. I just think that you know having this person be involved in this support group like AA is great but also having people you know caring people like you to discuss with him and also maybe having you know like a doctor or someone helping you with this other problem over a period of time and help you see what is really going on, are you self medicating or are you truly addicted and dependent or you know what is happening? It is very difficult um, situation to deal with and there isn’t just a simple answer, it really takes time and a marathon um., not the microwave approach it really is a marathon.
Sharon: Yes I see
Brian: How is your friend dealing with this, is this a struggle for support and yet dealing with criticism.
Sharon: I don’t know, I haven’t talked to him about it this much but um, he is not somebody that needs to be in my life, shall we say, right now, (laughter) Jill: Sharon you are really getting out there personal, over there with we are not on the phone
Sharon, (laughter), teasing you, I am so glad that you called,
Sharon: Jill probably knows who he is…. Jill: Just the fact that you have his welfare in mind means that you have an open door to make these comments to him or even through another friend and many times people can be very resistant to other types of addiction treatment so you have to be very careful you know that they aren’t uh, doing something to please you and you really have to be very careful how you approach this and maybe someone else could help Brian: Yes, more objectivity and well most important thing is to take care of yourself and don’t become deeply involved and keep objective. It is very easy to get manipulated and again this is why we talk about what loved ones can do at this time and that is be aware of the issue um, talk about it and at the same time be very aware that you don’t need to be taking care or trying to fix or solve the problem. So many
Sharon: I was very codependent in this relationship for a long time but praise God not anymore.
Jill: Thanks
Sharon for calling and bringing this to the forefront, call me anytime girl, we will talk soon. Brian: Have a great weekend
Sharon: You too
Jill: 770-226-0920 and Sharon brings up a very interesting comment and you know many um organic mental illnesses can be underlying a lot of the behaviors we are talking about today and there is no cookie cutter approach there is many types of things to do in order to understand this and commit the time to understand it. Brian: Also, because you have this bipolar disorder it is a psychiatric condition and I really want our listening audience to understand the position at Breakthrough is that we see medication and addiction treatment are both vital. Jill: We are coming to the end of the segment, 7670-226-0920, call in and we will be right back. Commercial Break
Jill: (laughter) we are talking about a term to describe behavior called “King Baby” for those Brian: Those that have dependency on drugs or alcohol Jill: That sounds like the opposite but once you discuss what those characteristics are people will recognize it and know that it makes sense. Brian: Many times someone will come into addiction treatment and there is enomolie and on one hand they feel like a conqueror and the other they have control of nothing. They don’t know why and when you use the words king baby, this is a booklet we use in our program and by Tom Cunningham and it is wonderful and it is good, as you read through it, by the way there is also a “Queen Baby” too and we will discuss that later, we will not beat up only on the guys, the women have their place too. So, today we are talking about the male characteristics as they develop and get their lives back…
Jill: Wait a minute Brian, I see in reading these characteristics females have these too, does it have to be so gender specific Brain: No, there are some general characteristics to both and then you find out that in some of these that we talk about today they are more specific to men and some other cases we talk about the women on the queen baby side and they have some characteristics that apply to female. You take a look at what it means when someone has infantile or immature behavior and let’s look at the developmental process as infants and they are just in the womb or after birth when they are hungry they cry, when sad, they yell, when they need attention they scream and they get the attention immediately. And so as we look at that characteristic that is the baby side and the other is the king side, when they feel that they control everything, being the center of the universe. Being the center of their own universe they think they are the center of others but…. Jill: My neice acted like that a lot and we would come running after hearing the yelling and she figured it out! Brian: Family members respond that way and the addict and the alcoholic see this and know that tantrums or withdrawals get them a lot of attention. That is why this last caller I wanted her to take care of herself and not fix anyone, that is what happens, as a person who begins to scream loud and throw tantrums or sometimes even do this more appealing ways they are more charming um flashy cars and girls and jewelry, big homes and all of the trappings of the armor that I use the word armor because they put that in front as a way to protect the soft inner part.
Jill: Umm Brian: That is when we talk about that king baby, the baby part is the immature part and they have not learned to deal with some of life’s stressors and have to put up the protective armor and flash the cymbals and the smooth talking and the suave exterior that seems to be able to keep all people at arms length. You will notice that most times most in our listening audience that if you have found some with these characteristics, but emotionally it doesn’t match, that is what we are talking about. 770-226-0920 if you are interested in this conversation you probably know someone get in on the conversation and we will talk with this situation in your life, give us a call, 770-226-0920. When you look at this attitude it becomes loud and demanding and wanting immediate results. Jill: So how does the King Baby personality um, I get it I get the infantile behavior but how does it express itself in adults I mean I think you said a few things but I want to be clear on this. We know how a baby expresses themselves with screaming but as an adult with the alcohol or the drugs, how is the adult acting give me a list of some chacteristics. Brian: Look at this, if they are demanding a person could also you know like children throw temper tantrums and anger and aggressive behavior and that is hard for those to deal with them. And so these behaviors or attention seeking behaviors are constantly demanding or always trying to be in the forefront that is what we find.
Jill: Ok, well, 770-226-0920 I want to talk about using anger to control everyone in your life. That is a big one, call in and question us or comment 770-226-0920. We have got to go to a break and we will be right back. Talking about King Baby. Commercial Break Jill: If you want to join us call at 770-=226-0920 and we are taling about characteristics of people with alcohol dependence or drug addiction and how they may come across to family or loved ones and how difficult it is to actually be in a house with someone that is struggling this way. Hopefully you are listening and thinking that you need to hear this because you are at the end of your rope. There is a lot of information to help you understand this disease and if you want to go to our website at www.breakthroughrecovery.com and if you want to look at what we are talking about there are some things on the website that can help guide you and we also mentioned earlier in the show that we have a family education program and it can help for you to get involved even if the loved one does not want addiction treatment we still encfodurage people deal,ing with this disease even if by proxy to come on isn and get into the program and understand and improve your life and take casre of yourself and Brian right before the break I talked about um, or you talked about the characteristics and anger just jumped out at me, I am not angry, the anger jumped out at me, ok? (laugh) Ok, just a little humor, they can’t see my face just having fun, anyways what is this about anger and how it can be such a great characteristic… Brian: Many times people with addiction and part of that is that they have a scared child inside. You say well where did that come from and you have to know that this person was raised in a family where all they had was criticism and condemnation constant put downs and they gave up. There is a hurt and broken individual and that is where the anger comes from and because the small child can’t express that openly as a parent and so as they grow old they try to accommodate but it comes out not in a healthy way and that is what you talked about. You also used the word anger and control and that is what we find in those addictions is that they use the anger as a way to control their environment. Instead of controlling healthy ways, they choose the unhealthy. The anger comes out as explosive and rage and something that sometimes they may have a purpose in being angry to be angry and the family has no idea what is going on. Maybe you are saying that this sounds like your life, constant anger. 770-226-0920 is our number and if this is beginning to hit a nerve and you are saying this makes some sense….they don’t feel that they have any self esteem this is what we see a lot in addiction treatment. A lot of anger. They are just, you know seething. Frustration remains and that child inside has been hurt and then they haven’t learned how to deal with it and as a result the anger and control comes out as they are ….. Jill: I am just you know, I know that there are a lot of people that have this in their families they are walking on eggshells and you know that when the anger is expressed, now I can understand why people call in and say, I don’t know how to bring this up to my dad or sister or brother or husband or wife, I don’t want the horrible confrontation and it is a big falling out and I don’t want the chaos again and Brian: Correct Jill, that is what you are saying that there is no communication and If communication is one way and you have said it perfectly in the sense that no matter what we try to do we try to make sense the anger control comes out and it always falls back into the control side of the one that has the addiction and that is the whole …. Jill: The people without the problem are trying to make sense of it and there is not making sense unless you understand the disease process and also the internal struggles like you are talking about and once you have a handle on that like maybe you would learn from a program or from reading that this is something going on much more complex than just someone being a jerk and I can just hear how the family members roll their eyes, well I can’t hear that but they do say things like, “Yesterday Dad was grilling and would not stop drinking and then started yelling at everyone and so they left, nobody wanted to be around him..” You know Brian I just feel like there is a lot of despair that goes through their minds and that they don’t feel like there is a way to get a handle on that because how do you make someone needing addiction treatment give in and get it? Brian: The way that they have to do that is to be able to take care of themselves and begin to say that if this is the behavior that you are going to exemplify then here is what we will have to do as a result of your behavior. Remember Jill is that the person is responding not because they have real good ego strength but we find out that they are responding to a sense of shame and a sense of deep inadequacy. It really comes across so powerful and so strong it still comes across alienating and that is where or how people express their shame. Inadequacy is always seen as power and….
Jill: It looks like we are at a break, we will be back for one last segment…call in 770-226-0920. We are going to be right back. Commercial Break Jill: We are in our last segment and we talked about anger being a device for control for the alcohol addicted or drug addicted person that is an obvious control type of thing so now what are some other controlling behaviors Brian for King Baby. Brian: You know when you are trying to control, I see the words “get attention” or “get control” these hold close together and they will do this with attractive personality, charm and constantly seeking power and seeking attention and I notice too that they seek to use devices that are used to fill the void the big cars and all of the trappings that look like you have success, all of this is a way and in itself these are bad when used when used in a manner as a way to express who they are and because deep down in side there is someone who is a scared little child. Now, when we see this as a way of protection from injury.
Jill: I see this and I am thinking about the Dad saying that he provides for everyone so get off my back. If they don’t want me to bother them maybe I shouldn’t talk to them about dependency could be what the family is thinking right now and many that come through our doors are into a place in their life where they are very successful but finally they develop the dependency that is robbing them not of the material things but of just quality of life because of health problems or other types of problems that have to do with alcohol dependency and they certainly did use the big job the fame the status all of those for a long time to keep people off of their back and out of their lives. Brian: The immature individual will act this way as long as they don’t have to talk to anyone and that makes their lives easier and in fact when you give them the reasons it really is in some way to hide the weakness and that is the part that most addicts have a hard time admitting and it is admitting that they have lost control over their own lives and admit Jill: Right, admit the powerlessness Brian: I want to emphasize it is not because the person is powerless it is because it is when they get to the disease process the brain has literally changed. In the beginning of the show I said the hijacked brain, they can no longer make logical decisions and in a way that is helpful and healthy and you know you ask that question basically there are two prime motivating factors for that King Baby behavior. First the scared child doesn’t want to hurt, if you have been addictedd emotionally in some way the process has not really gotten a grasp and so therefore instead of being able to handle things as a result they try to handle life problems as an adult they are struggling to handle life as you did as a child and wouldn’t that scare you too? Secondly, is that the King component that child part is never ever satisfied so that all is grasping and always wanting more and nothing is enough, that too is dissatisfaction and nothing is enough, we hear this a lot. Jill: Feeding the void. Brian: Beautiful statement. That emptiness, my goodness our time is shooting by here, I ….(laughter) Jill: Let’s wrap up and say we will discuss this further and maybe even next week and talk more about the family education program and finding help at our facility and other facilities that can help you and your family understand this dynamic. If you want to go to our website, www.breakthroughaddictionrecovery.com or our office for a free consultation 770-723-8091. I hope you will tune in next week on Saturday at 3:00 we will continue discussing family dynamic. We have some great shows planned in the next few months. We can’t wait and have a great day.
