The Alcoholism and Addiction Cure?
I woke up early this morning and was enjoying my coffee while waiting for the Sunday paper to be delivered. I turned on the TV, watched the news and then started flipping through the program guide. I found an infomercial that was coming on Court TV in a few minutes called “The Addiction Cure”. Being involved in the treatment industry as well a recovering alcoholic, I was immediately curious. I read a book by a gentleman named Chris Prentiss a couple of years ago called “The Alcoholism and Addiction Cure” and wondered if this paid infomercial might have some affiliation.
As the program started, the host displayed a copy of the aforementioned book. He gave a brief overview and then introduced Mr. Prentiss. Chris Prentiss is the co-founder and co-executive director of Passages Malibu, a very expensive and upscale treatment center located in Malibu
The infomercial touts this book as a definitive permanent cure for addiction. Mr. Prentiss states in his interview that by simply reading his book and applying it’s teachings that you can cure any addiction, regardless of the severity or peculiarities of the problem. He says that it works for gambling, sex, drugs, alcohol, tobacco, dietary and any other addiction or compulsive behavior.
He also tells the television audience that you can read the book and cure yourself. He says that the book can be used by people that might be too busy at work or can’t find a babysitter so that they can go into treatment for their addiction. I sat and watched all twenty eight minutes in total disbelief. Why would someone with a high profile treatment facility like Passages resort to an infomercial to sell books? I thought at first that it might be a genuine effort to help people defeat their chemical dependency but as the program progressed I was left with the impression that this was not the case but rather was designed to sell books at an inflated price. At the end of the infomercial, the book was offered for $24.95 plus S&H. It is listed as a $29.95 value. I checked on Amazon and indeed the list is $29.95 but Amazon sells it for $19.77 in hardback and $10.85 in paperback.
As I said earlier, I read the book a couple of years ago. I consider it a very good and informative book with a non-traditional approach to recovery. It is entertaining and an easy and compelling read. The first few chapters describe in detail the addiction issues that Pax, the son, dealt with for a number of years. Pax was cross addicted to several drugs during his youth and his particular problems culminated in Heroin addiction. The remainder of the book talks about his recovery and the underlying reasons that were driving his addiction.
“The Alcoholism and Addiction Cure” is an interesting book but it is far from a “cure” for alcoholism or addiction. Chris Prentiss states in his infomercial that alcoholism is not a disease and that it was classified that way only to make it coverable by insurance companies. If it is not a disease, how did he come up with a cure?
Passages Malibu states on their homepage that they have the “highest success rate in the world” but they also employ “continuing care” counselors. There is also an outpatient alcoholism treatment center in Atlanta that states that their program is eight times more effective than the national average. They bill themselves as “The Nations Leading and Most Effective Alcoholism Counseling Alternative to 12 Step Alcohol Addiction Treatment and Counseling Programs”. After completing their program and attaining one year of sobriety you are rewarded with a coveted “Gold D” for your efforts. They say that after attending their program you are not in recovery, but “recovered”.
One would have to assume that neither of these facilities has any clients that relapse or returned to dependency. I seriously doubt that this is the case. I also have no idea how either of them can legitimately make the success claims of being “Number One.” There are no ways to measure themselves against other treatment centers or programs. Most treatment centers are not aware when a client relapses after an extended period of time because contact is usually lost. I went through three treatment centers for alcoholism and never heard a word from any of them after I left the program. AA keeps no records, nor do most other non-12 step support groups.
There are many treatment centers, programs and philosophy’s available to deal with addictions. Some are very effective and some are not. 12-step or AA style of treatment works for some and is totally ineffective for others. One must remember that AA has a phenomenal success rate when you consider that it is free and run by a group of recovering addicts with no psychological or professional training. Most effective treatment centers that utilize the12-step treatment philosophy also provide counseling, medical, psychological and after care elements. It is my belief that there is no definitive or perfect way to treat the disease. Our treatment has many components and is individualized for each person. All clients have different needs and it is our belief that there is no “one size fits all” answer.
You cannot permanently “cure” alcoholism or drug addiction. Once you have crossed the threshold into chemical dependency several things occur both physically and psychologically. It is not possible for an alcoholic to drink casually or responsibly, a Heroin addict to take pain pills, a gambler to go to Vegas or a sex addict to go to a brothel without returning to the dependency. Addictive patterns can be altered, psychological issues can be addressed and dealt with, chemical substances can be removed from the system, the body can heal and a happy productive life can be resumed but alcoholics and addicts can never be totally cured. If resumed, alcohol and drug consumption may be controlled for a short time but will eventually end up with the addict resuming the addictive behavior and again being fully involved in dependency.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
I think the most important distinction made is that alcoholism and drug addiction can not be ‘cured’, at least not in the standard medical use of the word. Addiction takes regular if not daily maintenance in a variety of ways and anything that bills itself as a ‘cure’ is doing the recovery community a disservice.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:41 am
I agree with much of what you said, but one important assertion. That drug addicts, alcoholics, gamblers can never safely partake again in their addiction without going full out to the wall. There are all kinds of examples of former alcoholics and drug addicts who have “grown up” “gotten older, or more tired,” etc. And yet they will imbibe in some wine or beer, smoke grass occasionally or buy a lottery ticket. People get old, tired, and know they are going to die if they continue at their balls to walls addictions. Maybe its life that is the disease.
Also, the reason AA will not do longitudinal studies on their success rate is because it so poor. The relapse rate for people first exsposed to AA is so abysmal that they would lose their cherished compact with the health field, the criminal justice system, etc. Why would you want to taut a 7% success rate?
Prentiss is a particular kind of charlatan that I detest on so many levels, but after all it is America, Caveat Empteur? john harper
August 20th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
John Harper’s post of May 27th 2008 at 9:41 AM is a perfect example, in his thinking, of sour grapes. He really does not know A.A.’s history so he really shouldn’t try to sound knowledgeable or at least his knowledge is limited to only what he has read in the book, Alcoholics Anonymous which any student knows is limited or more likely, what a third party has told him. Recovery depends, in part, greatly on Simply How I Think. Figure it out.
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:14 am
a perfect exmaple, in his thinking, of sour grapes. nice sentence you moron. AA is semi, quasi cult invented by two kooks from the depression. I probably know a hell of lot more than you do about the history of AA. The fact is Marvin, AA has an abysmal success rate. And AA will not do longitudinal studies because the whole program-cult is a complete fraud. The courts, insurance companies, the treatment centers are all in on the racket. Grow up, Marvin. You are part of an idiotic institution, you a parrot, and pigeon. You have the cranial capacity of a tree sloth.
Dr. Bob and Bill W. were complete frauds. And you are a sucker. A wife beater and a full-time womanizer, and acid-head….those are your founding fathers. loser.
October 7th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
If Prentiss cared so much about the addict and their families (as he states on his website), why is this “cure” not free to all? The people who probably need it most have no money or support left, and are most likely living on the streets or are in and out of jail.
I can assure you; if I had the cure, I would distribute copies of it for free over the internet and hand the cure out to all the homeless with addiction problems.
I agree with a lot of points in this blog, as well as Prentiss.
AA’s record IS very bad, especially for first-timers. I’ve done 12-step programs, gone to AA meetings “religiously” (pardon the pun), and been to rehab for alcohol twice. I went to a concurrent disorder rehab because I also have adult ADD (most kids do grow out of it or learn to manage it - I had to find out why I was the way I’ve been all my life, too many years down the road). The support after you leave is okay (ie. not great), but it’s better than none.
Prentiss was right about certain things. Saying that you are going to be an addict all your life and having to “give up” your will to a “higher power” are not that conducive to everyone’s recovery (at least in my case and some others who went through programs with me). I do believe, though that addiction IS a disease. The disease, though is a by-product of other underlying disease(s) and it starts with a person trying to self-medicate. You can liken it to a person who suffers from acute pain for a prolonged period, takes pain-killers for it and then gets addicted to the medication even when the pain has subsided. Now, there is going to be a DIFFERENT kind of pain - usually ruining the person’s life.
I don’t mean to sound like I’m knocking any program. I believe whatever works for you is worth million-fold what you invested in the treatment (time and/or money). I think, though, that people need to be more aware of what is available out there and try anything and everything until they find what is right for THEM, not just the first thing that comes around.
I’ve been sober for 8 months, now, because I am taking medication and learning coping skills for my ADD. I am also managing my stress levels better and have been dealing with anger issues. The multi-faceted approach has been working for me and I HAVE had an occasional drink with no desire to drink more than that. My family/friends and I suffered for over 20 years; I think I found my “own” cure. I hope everyone finds theirs.
Cheers all,
Mark
October 7th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Sorry John, you must be hurting to be so bitter. I have been sober 26 years, thanks to AA. I continue to go to AA and I havent been “cult”inzed, When people come into AA they do one of two things. The will follow the steps or they won’t. The steps only require an examination of a person’s character. If a person sees the need to change his character, he works the steps.
Most people do not want to admit to their own flaws so they leave. Those that actually work the steps are helped, since their outlook and attitude upon life changes through self-examination, their awareness of shortcomings, and a continuing desire to change. These individals all experience a change in their character. They become less selfish and self-centered, more loving, gain in humility, grow in an awareness in a power greater than themselves, and help others. Is that so bad? Why criticize a program that accomplishes that.
You cannot measure AA’s success rate by including those who freely choose to not examine themselves. It’s not a failure of the program, raher its the failure of the individual to do the program. The individuals who walk away have chosen to not be willing to follow the directions. That’s not a failure of the program, it’s the failure of the individual.
AAA is a “program of attraction” which means individuals who have the improved character simply live life and this positive change in character is noticed by others. AA does not promote itself, nor does it need to. Institutions that refer individuals to AA, either mandentory or not, must see AA as a positive thing. What the courts have done when they decided to send offenders to AA is simply bring a lot of people, who do not want to be there, into a program designed for people who want to be there.
AA was not consulted nor did they want to be because a tradition exists within that we do not support or oppose any outside causes. I have seen some who get into long term recovery through court papers and I have seen many who don’t. The same with treatment centers. Insurance companies do not send people to AA. AA receives no money from any source and exists solely on self contributions.
Its not the AA program, its the individual desire to stay sober that makes any program a success or not. It comes down to personal accountability and a move away from the “victim” mentality.
As to the reason for this blog. I haven’t read the book nor do I want to but I can tell you that if its theme is to puff you up rather than involve the process of self-examination the individual is likely to waste his or her money. True self esteem comes from a character change. AA is one place to provide that transformation. Take it or leave it. My gut feel is that this book it is designed to make a profit like most things promoted.
October 14th, 2008 at 8:35 am
any reference to AA’s success rate must understand one fact. The reason for the lowering success rate in AA is because the Book Alcoholic Anonymous is not being studied enough by newcomers because there has been a damaging association with what treatment centers say with AA.
Let it be understood that AA in its true form as laid out in the Book Alcoholics Anonymous is the only hope of returning to a useful and whole life that any Alcoholic has. Any deviation from this and one becomes another addition to the category of AA failure.
I personally would like to thank all that fail as you have helped me stay sober. A “true” alcoholic will only think one thing when hearing that there is a cure….” Where can I get the cure so I can drink again.” Anyone see anything wrong with that or see how deadly that is.
Sam C.
Raleigh, N.C.
October 22nd, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Why would there need to be a cure if there is no disease?
I’ve been in the program for 7 years. I’ve not been brainwashed. I can come and go as I please. I am not forced into anything. I’m given suggestions which I’m allowed to take or not take. It is voluntary. It has nothing to do with a cult.
I would never suggest there is one way to become and stay clean and sober. I only know I have tried many other ways and, for me, the only one that has worked for any period of time is the 12 steps.
This book seems bothersome in that it will probably give a false sense of hope to people who don’t want to stop their behaviors. I can’t see how a book in and of itself could possibly cure someone of anything. It appears very irresponsible on the author’s part. I’ve not read it, don’t plan to, so this is all conjecture on my part.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I would like to add to my previous post on the issue of powerlessness and free will as it applies to AA.
First, powerlessness is twofold. An alcoholic loses the ability to say no after the first drink. Alcohol simply swindles the individual’s ability to make good decisions while under its influence. Thats the first level of powerlessness and has to do with one’s individual biological response. Real alcoholics in recovery should have no problem admitting to that. One cannot change this fact no matter how he tries or how long he remains dry. There is no cure for this powerlessness as their likewise is no cure for other diseases.
The second level of powerlessness is the inability to say no to the first drink. This is more subtle but without some conditioning to the truth about the disease and some new tools, it can remain a problem. This level of powerlessness has to do with attitude, emotional stability and growth, all of which are helped by the 12 steps process of AA. It ceases to be a problem when proper maintenance and growth of our thinking occurs. This is given a good boost through active participation in AA.
For some people in may be church and for others it may be something else. AA works for those who follow through. I say NO to alcohol today because I know better what will happen if I take the first drink. Where I was once powerless; I am now empowered by truth. AA helps me stay in that truth.
Truth allows me to make better decisions which are the exercise of my free will. Whoops, did I say free will. The opponents of AA would like to say that AA requires you to give up your will. This is not so. What the program really says is to turn my life and will over to the CARE OF GOD. I still make all of my own choices with my own volitional abilities but try to make the choices that God would want me to make. To make good decisions requires conditioning, in other words, learning more about God and His ways.
The difference between today and what I used to make choices on is the removal of lies and untruths that used to make me think I needed to drink. As I have gained a greater understanding of God, I simply find that his way works better than mine and therefore I freely choose to do it His way. An example is to practice honesty (God’s way) rather than dishonesty ( my old way). I have never lost my ability to choose, I simply choose better. I give thanks to AA for helping me remove the idea that I was the center of the universe and that it was all about me. I continue to go to AA to keep my thinking right.
That’s what the steps of the program do; they empower me where before I was lacking in power. Hence the expression turning my life and will over to the care of God means seeking Him and His wisdom so that I will make better choices. God gives me full freedom to choose whereas the real culprit that swindles us of good choices is the effects of alcohol and wrong thinking. Consider how often we get angry and act wrongly. To remove anger requires a personality change.
AA’s process solves both of the powerlessness problems. If one slips in the program it has nothing to do with God, it was a choice made by the individual. Of course if a person comes into the program and fails to get it, it simply means he chooses to do it his own way instead of God’s way. Its not complicated but difficult for those that are steeped in selfishness, self-centeredness, and who operates on false beliefs and lies. If you think otherwise you are deceived.
AA itself is not a cure; it is a means to live life without alcohol with reasonable happiness. Happiness comes as a result of doing it God’s way. AA only promotes that thought, and does not offer religious practice. What it does offer is help with character such as honesty, unselfishness, unconditional love, purity, and other good moral principles that just so happen to be aligned with most religions. In fact, you are encouraged by AA to practice your own religion outside of AA. (Big Book Page 87)
I still have no opinion on the book. If someone wants to send me one free, I will be happy to offer an opinion.
October 25th, 2008 at 7:24 am
One question that this author asks can be answered easily. “Number One” is a generic term that can be used in ANY advertising without recourse.
Substance abuse is very often ’self medication’ for underlying psychological issues. None of us make it out of childhood with mental perfection, it is more a question of the degree of injury. Severe childhood input leaves severe issues and self-medication is one way of dealing with the pain whether it is consciously perceived or not.
With that in mind, the idea of treating the underlying causes for chemical abuse is a sound one, though I cannot speak to this particular program. I do not know them beyond their constant television ads.
I will say this, however. The television advertisements are very misleading in that they offer a permanent ‘cure’ for a long-term problem and suggest that it is a ‘one-shot’ thing. If there was, in actuality, a one-shot cure, there would be no substance abusers. That does not mean that the program is not effective. It does, however, mean that the ads for the book are definitely misleading.
The real bottom line of this discussion is that what ever system works for a particular individual is the system that should be followed. In any system the key is the determination of the person who enrolls in it, given that the system itself has a prior history of success. Whatever works for YOU is the best system for recovery.
October 30th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Wow. Just found this. Harper’s August 23, 2008 post is not only full of misspellings (which, ironically, he criticizes Marvin T for!), but just plain bad information. And not only sour grapes, indeed, but so needlessly hostile and defensive. Bitter, bitter, reconsider, John.
No wonder you reject the twelve steps. You wouldn’t be able to hold on to your bitter, vitriolic (look it up, dude), inane, resentful, angry point of view.
I’d hate to see what your “founding fathers” look like!
November 2nd, 2008 at 1:07 pm
thanks niel, yes I am dealing with alcoholism, and i think some kind of manic-type depression. I just feel unlike you, alot of Nebraska AA people are self-righteous, and extremely anti-intellectual. Obviously you are what is good about aa and recovery, but I see people in the meetings with 30 years sobriety and they are mean, petty, and bitter too, who da’ thunk……love you all..john h. I bought your book, and enjoyed…..somebody needs to come with a 24-72 hour detox program, so you can get some traction……I agree the people that need the most help have the least access to our health care, or mental health care industry.
November 10th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Clearly much research has been done which supports the “disease concept”: i.e. Not enough D2 receptor and the accretion of acetate in the liver and pancreas at 3 to 10 times the rate of non-alcoholic causing craving. From my own experience, I am certain that I possess this metabolic issue with alcohol.
Aside from all this, those in AA and certainly those not must truly understand “the solution” - it is clearly delineated in the Basic Text of Alcoholics Anonynmous when Dr. Carl Jung has his converstion with “the wealthy American businessman” (Roland H). The program is about PERSONALITY CHANGE. The steps are the guidelines, roadmap, catalyst…whatever you will to cause this “psychic change” (sometimes called the spiritual experience). The AA Group (my higher power) is the fantastic support to the newcomer until they can experience this. I have sponsored dozens in the program and know from empirical evidence that this works. By the way, I charge nothing.
November 17th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
To all that have written concerning the life threatening qualities of addiction:
I believe that substance addiction is in fact a disease. If the medical world added addiction as a disease to the DMS-IV-TR so it would qualify for insurance claims, good for them. I am fairly sure that if the insurance industry could provide a strong argument against this assertion, they would have.
If you are addicted to a substance, fight like your life depends on it. It does! Consider all options, then choose the one you believe is best. Talk with people who have fought addiction, and are living sober lives. If you need help and can’t afford it, please consider downloading my workbook. It is FREE, and it just might help. Be strong. I wish you all the best.
November 21st, 2008 at 7:50 am
“Why non 12 Step.” I just read that section of “Breakthrough Addiction and Recovery,” and I found it very insightful, measured and reasoned. I wish more
AA zealots would open their minds a bit, and realize that they have no monopoly on
truth, or how to get better. For that matter, what constitutes getting better.
November 26th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Hi again.
I’m glad that this site elicited more responses - and I’m sure the moderator does, as well.
It looks like, though, that here are some hurtful comments made by both AA and non-AA sides. I guess it should be expected, but it seems that neither side likes to budge in their thinking.
As I stated before, “I believe whatever works for you is worth million-fold what you invested in the treatment (time and/or money)”. This goes for AA and any other program. I like to consider myself open to new ideas, but I know that not everyone is like me.
Instead of saying what is “wrong” with another’s treatment, wouldn’t it be better to focus on the “right” things instead? AA didn’t work for me - maybe I didn’t want it to subconsciously, I don’t know. I haven’t tried the Prentiss program and at this point I don’t think I need it - it is always there if I do. With my AA experience and a some “customizing”, I found something that does (without the white knuckles).
Addiction has been around (probably since the dawn of man) for a long time. It has only been in the past century that people are truly willing to sit down and try to figure out how to get people out of them. By clinging to “one-and-only-one-way” mentality, you are only harming a great process, not helping. I mean this for both sides of the arguement.
Copernicus and Galileo challenged the churches view of the centre of the universe; Aristotle built upon Socrates’ philosophies; Einstein showed that Newtonian physics worked to a certain degree, but was bunk when applied to the very small (atoms) and the very big (galaxies/universe).
Why does everything need to be “black and white”? My TV has colour :)-
Cheers to all,
Mark
November 28th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
John Harper, I can really appericiate your OPENMINDEDNESS and your HONESTY and your WILLINGNESS to want to try something new, to look at different aveneus of recovery. Your not just saying…oh well, I’ve heard it all!!! this MUST BE the only way to do things. Let other people have their Wordly Wisdom and let them run with it I say!!! I am also a member of AA and NO way… do I agree with everything ( 12 steps,12 traditions) thats just my opnion. It does work for some… and some not. I liked to what you had to say about AA members opening their minds, and their being no monopoly on truth. I think we could all use a little more of this (OPENMINDEDNESS) So any of you getting soooo fired up about Prentiss book or AA RELAX alittle bit more go meditate! It’s good for ya, not to mention it feels great!! John,I can over look your criticism as long as you can overlook my miss-spelling.
Jennifer M.
December 13th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Well, from what I’ve seen, in a little over 10 years of being in AA, the successs rate is LOW. The 7% number I saw earlier seems like it migh even be a little high. The percentage of people who get sober and stay sober is about the same rather they are forced to get a paper signed by the courts, sober up for themselves, get sober for a spouse or decide to quit on their own with no outside help (AA or self-help books).
December 18th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
To tout a ‘cure’ for addiction is unethical, in my opinion. Where is the empirical, standardized and controlled study results to back up such a claim?
Show me the undisputed clinical and scientific proof.
It does not exsist. In fact the studies show that no one method of treatment is clearly more effective than another, (among mainstream accepted treatments).
Bill
January 1st, 2009 at 10:15 pm
It saddens me to see such hurtful words on a site that is about addiction. Addiction is painful all in itself.
My mom has been clean and sober for over 30 yrs in AA. She got sober when I was 10 and I grew up in Alateen, but went on to become a crackhead/heroin addict. 11 years ago I had enough. Yes, I did go to AA, but I dont go to meetings now. I am greatful for the foundation they gave me. I dont judge people on if they go to meetings or not.
What I do know, is that AA people are not judgemental jerks, AA is not a cult. All the friends I made in AA are still my friends to this day, they dont care if I go to meetings or not, they are just glad I am still clean and sober.
I pray everyday for people that are still out there and suffering, I dont believe there is just 1 solution for EVERYONE with addiction problems. Before I got clean, I had gone to over 50 detox centers and countless 28 day treatment centers, and countless meetings also. After the hell on earth dealing with my alcoholism/drug addiction, I find that I have a gentle/kinder way to think of people getting clean and sober. I believe there is a way for everyone to get right….but not just my way. On a daily basis, I borrow a bit from AA, a bit from God, a bit from the treatment centers i went to. I believe love is a very important ingredient in my solution.
John Harper, I hope you find your way
I really enjoyed reading the positive remarks on this site, thank you yall
January 6th, 2009 at 11:58 pm
Ando, I do agree, the success rate is LOW in AA, but after growing up in the program I do believe that is because it is ‘watered down’. No one wants to work the steps or read the big book.
To this day, I still go to the convention(in the area I grew up in) and I am 100% amazed at the women that show me everyday how well AA does work
Like I said in my earlier comment, there is no 1 way for EVERYONE, I do believe there is a way for everyone who wants a life without drugs and booze. It is up to that person to find that way, it may not be my way, my mom’s, yours or anyone else’s.
To all of you that are suffering today, I hope you find your way.
To all of you that have found your way, I smile for you!
GB yall
January 10th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
although i’m no longer actively involved in AA, the program did play an important role in my recovery - so i’m grateful for having been exposed to it. i can’t speak for others, so i won’t, but in my case i needed spirituality to get better. AA got the ball rolling for me in this regard, but for whatever reason, my journey has taken me in a different direction. it’s good to listen to others, but ultimately it’s best to listen to your own heart;)
January 14th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
I think this post was really cool. I haven’t read this book, but maybe I will check it out. I can’t imagine why someone would want to spend $50,000 instead of $10.85 if they could just “do it themselves.” I think Passages is really cheapening their image by doing an infomercial and saying these things. Different styles of treatment work better with others. I agree that there is no way to tell who is the “# 1″ addiction treatment center. Thanks for sharing your tips and looking forward to reading more.
January 16th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
It would be amazing if there were a simple “cure” — but there isn’t. What works for one person does not work for all and that’s just the way it is.
I really enjoyed my visit to your site & I am thoroughly impressed by the interaction of your readers. I look forward to coming back and reading more!
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:37 am
A “cure” would seem to incicate that once the book is read, and put into action, that one would be able to indulge with moderation. As a recovered (or recovering,depending on how you choose your paradigms and definitions, addict and alcoholic with 23 years clean and sober, I have not seen that kind of a cure over the long term. A drink or a drug once in a while for a person who has had serious long term dependency is fools gold. One may whistle in the dark for a short time, but the long term result is inevitable. I have gone to meetings regularly all these years and seen many come back who had deluded themselves into thinking that it would be different this time. Not a good idea, Bozo. I hope that Mark with 8 months smartens up. There are many ways, but AA or NA are free, they work for those who work them, and people are there to walk the road of happy destiny with us. Thanking the Lord for my freedom , Dae
January 25th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Thank you Dae (?),
I was going to write back with a bit of a nasty retort (about the “smarten up” comment), however I took a break and walked away to cool off. “Live and Let Live” and “…grant me the serenity…”, as they say in AA. I also didn’t want to be a hippocrate (see my second comment above).
I used those two pieces of AA to show that I DID learn some things from my experiences. I’m not saying AA is ALL bad, and I’m not saying it doesn’t help anyone; it just wasn’t right for ME. I could ramble on about the reasons why it wasn’t right for me and why it may not be right for SOME others, but I don’t believe that’s the purpose of this forum.
I AM saying that there is more out there than AA (although some who are in the program will tell you it’s the ONLY one that WORKS), some are free (at least here in Canada) and some can be covered by insurance and others by donations. It’s just a matter of looking around. Not all the best things in life are free either.
I AM saying, also, that if AA works for someone then I’m truly happy for them and I hope they continue to work the program. I think we ALL want to get to the same location; it’s just that some people choose a different route. Pray for the ones that get lost on the way and lend a hand to them, no matter what route they chose. It’s obvious that they are trying, otherwise they wouldn’t have the map.
Cheers,
Mark
February 5th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
I too have been in and out of the AA program. Once I actually had 11 months sober. It was the best 11 months of my life. I had worked the 12 steps w/ a sponsor who was quite rigourous (14 hr 5th Step). Once I finished I continued to practice the principles (daily 10th step inventory, meditating, mtgs) as best I could and was active with a detox center. I was even asked to become a director of said detox center. Yet I relapsed. It personally hurts me to hear AA members remark that if someone relapses they obviously didnt work the program, when in my case I do not believe that to be true. I worked it w/ every ounce of my being. Even tackling the gut wrencing 9th step ammends swallowing my fear and walking in courage as I explained my wrongs to those I had wronged. After all this I felt abandoned by God that a relapse was my reward. For those of you who say I chose to pick up… that may be true - but it sure didnt feel like a CHOICE. I know there is a portion of the book that states some of us “just get better” and feel that this might possibly be my destiny, though the thought makes me both angry and grateful. Angry because - Why not me? From what I saw I did as much or more than those that are still sober. And grateful because I am better and though I did relapse my life is better than when I came to AA. I don’t go to meetings currently - I have difficulty doing so…. I truly am sour grapes and dont have a problem admitting it.
February 13th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
I just saw a short commercial on TRU TV that prompted me to look up the book and found this “blog”. I have been in and out of recovery for 20 years and never had more than 6 months of true sobriety. I learned very much about addiction over the years. All of the teachings I recieved were based on AA’s 12 steps and of course some scientific facts. I believe that people can be addicted to one or more substances, but not neccessarily all. I truly believe that I am a methamphetamine addict but not alcohol or heroine or many other substances. Anyway the actual point I want to make is that I agree that each person needs to find their personal way to recover. Programs like AA are great for those it works for. It didn’t work for me. I have a mother who has several years of sobriety and still goes to meetings and needs that program to stay sober and is happy. When she gets complacent and slacks off she relapses. My father also is an alcoholic who started his recovery in 1980, but no longer goes to meetings and occasionally has a beer or margarita(but does not get drunk). I might also add that in those years he has remarried, had another child, went to law school and is now a successful attorney. I personally grew up and was sick and tired of being sick and tired and now have been free of MY addiction for a year. Life is not perfect, but it is deffinitely better and getting better. I don’t have the answer, but I think my story is a prime example of everybody is different and what works for others may not work for all.
February 13th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
I would say to srgrps that relapsing does not have to be looked at as failure. Drinking is what alcoholics do and it takes what it takes to bring us to sobriety. We alcoholics in recovery only have sobriety aslong as we continue doing what works, whatever that may be. I would look carefully at what has worked for you in the past and then repeat that. 11 monthes sober shows you what works. The interesting thing about choices is that often we don’t see them coming. We are often blindsighted by misinformation we have within us. No one is perfect, and even I at 27 years of sobriety could relapse. I go to meetings today because the AA process is always helpful no matter how long we have been sober. Don’t let the comments of a few keep you from participating in what works for you.
March 8th, 2009 at 4:11 am
I am so glad I found people who see the crap, and I am not the only one. I am a graduate of Rosecrance and Hazdelden. The one thing I took out of both programs is the addiction is a complicated disease, that has many aspects and can not be summed up in a book, other than the Big Book. Where is the research? How many people have you treated? How dare you profit on people with a problem that effects 10 in 100 people in this country, and chatge so much money. I spent half that and went to the best treatment center in the world that was founded in the 1950’s and has studied this throughout. You cannot cure addiction and if one could, they would have found this years ago. And you would have a Nobel Prize if you truly had the alleged cure
March 15th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
Bill Urell has it right, I believe. Wish I could be that succinct. (if I misspell, try to ignore please) Like others who take the time to weigh in, this is a very emotional subject. We feel we must share our experiences in the event, in some way it may help someone else? Who among us has not been affected in some way by alchoholism or drug addiction and sometimes as in my case, both?
The advertisement for The Alchoholism and Addiction Cure brought me to this site. What a provocative statement! If it could possibly be true, imagine the hords of addicts and researchers who would overwhelm them. Like others I have read here, it seems to me the word cure would suggest disease which is a contradiction, right?
My years of alchoholism took me down a winding path like many. Being Irish, I learned, adds to the likelyhood of alchoholism if you once take a drink. After several attempts to stop drinking on my own having considered myself a “problem drinker”, I decided to seek help. My father was a devout member of AA and very adament about it’s benefits. Since he and I did not agree on many things, I chose to look for other alternatives. My company, like many offered assistance for a limited number of appointments and I found a counselor who seemed right for me. In a very short period of time we reached somewhat of an impass. It seems I was clinging to the idea, I could continue to drink if I could manage “not drinking to excess”. My counselor very wisely, never challenged me but kept the conversation alive. In the process, she recommended to me a book, entitled “Under the Influence”. (Authors, James R. Milam, Ph.D. and Katherine Ketcham) This small paperback book of 200 some pages turned out to be the most powerful book I had ever read. As I paged through the book with a highlighting pen looking for statements I could mark to convince my counselor I had a drinking “problem”, I learned the truth about myself. I am an alchoholic. The scientific evidence along with tremendous amounts of research brought me to that conclusion. Once convinced of that fact, I stopped reading. I put down the book and I thanked my lucky stars I had come to this incredible realization. I undertood if I continued to drink, my path lead the the 55 gallon drum under the railroad tracks with the fire going and passing the bottle around with my peers. It was crystal clear to me, I had no option. I quit! Thank God! For me, that was it. There was no more to think about, to argue, to justify. I subsequently attended an AA meeting recommended by my counselor. While it seemed to be doing it’s work for those in attendance like my own father, it was not for me. I was able to go to bars with my friends and have a tonic or a coke and was perfectly happy. I felt better and although I had a tremendous craving for ice cream (my body wanting to have the sugar it had been receiving from alchohol) there seemed to be no other side affects. Bear in mind, I invested many years of dealing with the self doubt of not being able to control my urge to have that “comfortable self assured feeling” so I am not unaffected. People who know me find it incredible, how I was able to stop “cold turkey”. It has been 10 years now and I’m extremely healthy and as happy as anyone I know and enjoy my alchohol free life. Matter of fact, having this experience and knowing a better life make me wonder why we would drink in the first place. This sounds like I am on a soap box. I am not! For many years, my entire social life centered around alchohol. Today it is as if I am free! At first it seemed like money was growing in my pockets. I had no idea how much I was spending on my lifes pleasure? I do not know how to say it? I’m not a cautious conservative person, rather not. At one time I raced motorcycles and jumped out of perfectly good airplanes. I was sober during these events but to be sure there was much drinking after the fun was over. If it can happen to me, why not everyone else?
Unfortunately, there is no way to convey this moment of truth I had to someone else. Humans are much to complicated for that. If only it were possible?
My motivation for writing this is in no way self promoting. I am simply grateful I seem to have overcome my addiction. My life today is very involved with a drug addicted son. I am learning as we live this experience, everyone is an individual, there is no single or simple answer. The statemement I’m about to make is no way intended to convey any message but it is worth noting. My son like me, does not seem to benefit from attending meetings. He is on recovery and having counseling when he feels the need. He is drug free (tested periodically) for 9 months. I pray for his continued success. Our experiences with his peers and their families help me recognize the likelyhood, he will relapse.
To me it seems the idea of attending meetings is helpful to many. My impression is that many consider meeting attendance a measure of success, commitment, and benefit. It is also a means of attempting to control the addict beyond what seems reasonable to me. The old saying “you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink” seems appropriate here. If the addict is mature and reasonable and not inclined to attend meetings, other avenues should be pursued.
Thank you for listening,
John D
Thanks for listening
April 5th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Having issues with alcohol myself, and I am only speaking of my own personal experience, I have a few takes on the subject; however, I have yet to reach a definitive answer regarding the topic and my own solution.
I myself struggle with the acceptance of the ‘AA’ program. Honestly, the part that I do embrace are the meetings and fellowship, as well as the people that understand what I have been through. This to me is the ultimate benefit.
The parts that I do struggle with include the ‘disease’ concept, the church-like dogma, the CONSTANT talk about alcohol, and these are just to name a few for starters. Also, I use this analogy when people state that Alcoholics can never fully recover, take a sip of alcohol, just as the initial post stated that those with other forms of addiction can never be in the environment without relapsing. To an extent I agree. I would be foolish to limit my own thoughts on this matter. However, my analogy is, can those with sexual addictions never have sex again? Can those with eating disorders never eat again?
This comparison may seem somewhat over simplified or irrelevant to those with ‘SERIOUS’ addictions such as drugs and alcohol. But, it is my opinion that these are no different. Just because they do not result in people behaving in such a drastic manner (i.e. alcohol=anger, poor judgment, lack of simple mechanics, etc.), doesn’t mean that these are not addictions. I guess I am a bit bitter because I see society treating certain addictions, especially weight loss, with kid gloves. Hurray - Oprah has finally shed that weight and can fight the urge to eat that cheesecake! Okay, I am being facetious. But my point is that there are many other addictions which do not emphasize that those experiencing them are ‘SICK’ and have a ‘Disease’. If ‘AA’ is nothing to be ashamed of why is it anonymous? Why are those with such a crippling disease (alcohol) taught that they are powerless and it’s not their fault, yet they have to hide being the rooms as if they are outcasts?
These are just some of the questions that I struggle to find the answers to in my own experience. I was relieved when I started reading the book ‘The alcoholic and Addiction Cure’. I have not finished it yet, i was not able to afford to buy the whole thing. But, after reading the initial blog, I must say that I have a huge problem with anyone charging $50,000 to ‘cure’ someone.
This book may not answer all of an addicts questions, but it definitely challenges some schools of thought that others may be too afraid to questions since AA seems to be the only way - as if there were only one way to find GOD.
Anyway, I’d love to read others’ thoughts. Again, this is only my personal experience.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:22 am
I believe there is no proof, that if you do not use a 12 step program, you will be a lost soul.Many people have dealt with their choice to drug and drink by attending zen meetings, yoga and many other non 12 step programs, while never returning to abuse substances again. Whatever works, totell people things that there is no proof for, feels like a cult, sounds like a cult. Which bothers me. I have not used any substance for over 20 years and do not belong to a 12 step program. anything is possible as long as we believe it so and empower ourselves, which does not come from fear. I am not an addict, i am someone who used a substance to escape the thoughts in my head and do not face growth. In the 12 step rooms , I witnessed alot of anger, gossip etc. Whatever works for the individual is what is best, not a one shoe fits all.
April 19th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
The Passages and Addiction Cure program take a position that once was fairly standard:
the behavior of alcoholics, addicts, gamblers, etc. is a symptom of something taking place in the mind. After physical detox, and interruption of the undesirable behavior for a time, getting at and modifying what is taking place in the mind should change the behavior. Psychotherapeutic intervention was seen as the key, and it had to be long term. Easier said than done.
Unfortunately, we humans are so complex, our minds such marvelous labryinths, that psychological/psychiatric healing attempts, with even the “best” or “highest quality” psycho therapy struggles to achieve a high long term rate of “much improved” let alone “cured”. cf. Tom Cruise rant, “psychiatry is a criminal fraud”
There is no penicillin like drug or talk therapy for the ills of the mind. However, the fact of receiving the informed “care” of someone, whether a sponsor or therapist, and the action of trying to move along some positive path of change whether psychotherapy or a Program is likely to be benefical. “First, do no harm…”
April 28th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Well, it’s been exactly one year since the first comment to this blog. I’d just like to say “Happy Anniversary” and also see how all the submitters (John, Neal, Samantha, etc.) are doing.
As for myself, I’m still doing well in dealing with my addiction (ie. no relapses). There are occasionally some cravings to over-indulge when things are stressful (being an accountant during the tax season especially!), but when I get that feeling I go and practise Tai-Chi as a way to meditate (/medicate) and get some exercise/stretching to release the old endorphines. I can still go out, occasionally, and have only one glass of wine with friends without wanting to have more (my problem being the use of alcohol to cope - thus bingeing - rather than the full-blown physical need for it every day).
I’m glad to see that more people are adding their two-cents worth to the blog and hope that even more will join in. It’s always rewarding to see other points of view.
I hope EVERYONE is doing well; those who are recovered, those on their way to recovery, those who are still packing the car and those who haven’t realized yet that they need the vacation.
Cheers!
Mark E.
May 5th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
I found Mr. Prentiss choice of words quite interesting on pg.15 paragraph three he used the words ‘Dark Ages’ in the following sentence, “It made me feel as if i had gone back to the Dark Ages and that next they were going to recommended bloodletting as a remedy” And then in the next paragraph he used the word ‘Heal’ in the following sentence, “Today, having HEALED hundreds of people.” Made me think about how people back in the old west would travel from town to town setting up tent claming they had the power to HEAL people of their illness. I’m wondering if that some sort of Frueding slip.
May 13th, 2009 at 7:50 am
Neal Pearson says you can’t count the people that were unwilling to “do the work”. That’s foolishness, you’re reallying saying you can’t count the people AA doesn’t work for.
About 5% stay sober in AA, about 5% stay sober with no program or treatment. For AA to be considered effective at all, you can only count how many stay sober ABOVE the rate of spontanious remission.
I just picked up the Prentis book from the library, I don’t expect any eath shattering revelations, but I suspect it will be better than “Broken” by William Cope Moyers who praises the 12step method while blaming everyone else but himself for his addictions.
May 14th, 2009 at 9:59 am
I agree with Ray Smith. Spontaneous remission is definitely not considered. But what I’d like to see are success/failure statistics on the literally thousands of people who have tryed AA, have swung in and out, and should be classified as FAILURES of the AA program. Its kind of like Boys Town. They select their probable success teens, and the rest of the troubled lot can be taken care of by the state or government. Have you seen the tremendous success rate of Boys Town? Thats how AA works. We only count the ones that succeed and stay in the program. They won’t even count the ones they have helped and have moved on, because their bored of their stupid stories and boring protestant rituals. AA makes me sick. Big John Harper
May 24th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
After listening to a commercial on the book I went online in search of a site such as this one. I was sure that the claims made in the book commercial would cause a stir among anyone who has had success through AA. I celebrated my 48th anniversary of continued sobriety in February thanks to AA. When you consider that the success rate with recovery of alcoholics before AA was about zilch I’d say they have a fantastic record. I know a lot of folks who are piling up the years of coninued days and months and years and decades of continued sobriety thanks to AA.
Those commercials are getting more and more frequent and that probably means that they are selling a lot of books. That is sad because every commercial spreads misinformation to many people who really need some real help.
June 5th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
People are court ordered to go to AA. These people many times have no desire at all to be sober. And since these very people are court ordered, they certaintly would not admit to having no desire to be sober. So, how could you do an accurate study on the effectiveness of the twelve steps. You can’t.
June 6th, 2009 at 12:37 am
Art claims: “the success rate with recovery of alcoholics before AA was about zilch”.
People have been quitting alcohol and drugs for thousands of years before Bill & Dr. Bob got together. MOST people who quit do so without AA or any other program or treatment.
“One recent study found that 80% of all alcoholics who recover for a year or more do so on their own, some after being unsuccessfully treated. When a group of these self-treated alcoholics was interviewed, 57% said they simply decided that alcohol was bad for them. Twenty-nine percent said health problems, frightening experiences, accidents, or blackouts persuaded them to quit. Others used such phrases as “Things were building up” or “I was sick and tired of it.” Support from a husband or wife was important in sustaining the resolution.”
Treatment of Drug Abuse and Addiction — Part III, The Harvard Mental Health Letter, October 1995.
June 10th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Good post. I think it is possible to recover from depression, but it takes time and patience. I can’t find any good message boards on the net, can you recommend any?
June 12th, 2009 at 9:44 am
I think your perspectives are limited and your afraid to look at addiction and recovery from a new standpoint, which makes sense. I do believe it can be cured. I’m a living example of it because of this book. I agree that it is unfortunate that many people cannot afford his treatment center, I have my own judgements about this, however, you cannot deny the powerful and amazing results people get from his treatment philosophy. Reading most of your responses is depressing and discouraging. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to heal and get better after witnessing your attitudes. Chris Prentiss, is very clear that never again can you pick up after you heal your addiction. He states that while dealing with the underlying causes, this won’t be a problem because you will NEVER want to pick up again.. how is this not a cure? If you NEVER have the urge to pick up your addictive substance agin, if you are free of it, how is this not a cure? He never says your biology can handle a drink again, he says your MIND won’t want to. The mind is the most important powerful tool we have. There are many teachers out there who have mastered it. Perhaps is you open yours just a bit, you may find the dark clouds that linger over your head turn to sunshine.
June 15th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Congratulations Karen, but I believe you’re leaving out the most important piece of the equation: you.
You made the decision to quit and helped solidify your decision by reading the book. That’s what happens to many who join AA, other groups, or investigate other methods, and they start giving all the credit to the method, rather than their own resolve.
It is a no-brainer that if a person has issues that cause him to drink and those issues are never addressed, the person will most likely drink again. Prentiss addresses this, but rest of his program (and Wilson’s) are distractions.
Prentiss’ claim of a 84% success rate is a wild claim, just as AA’s claim of 75% (who really try) is a wild claim, neither stands up to scrutiny.
June 15th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Figures lie and liars figure. The only statistics that really matter to me are my own and I am running 100% since February 13, 1961. I read every book I could find and then wrote a whole shelf of my own. I listened to every tape I could find. I met a lot of great people who helped and a lot of people say I’ve helped them a bit. I think that it takes AA and a ton of other stuff but whatever works for you is great with me. I wish you all continuing success in finding a great new life.
June 17th, 2009 at 10:59 am
I agree with Ray Smith. Most people who quit destructive habits use a kind of personal, individual plan. Which they will even attribute to AA, but the fact of that
matter is they have decided to quit or change their lives.
I have said this many times, AA will not do scientific metrics on their actual success rate because it would be so low….I’m guessing 7 to 12 percent at best, and they would lose their sacrosanct status with the judicial/criminal system, hospital and treatment centers, insurance industry, etc. Which are raking in money on this entirely fictional fallacy of the disease concept.
Also, the NYC national headquarters of AA is very secretive and gives no sunshine statements on is financial portfolio. I have a suspicion that it might be a portfolio the size of Boys Town, with as little done for the common people. Oh, O.K. books.
AA is a con-job, and every dollar you give at every meeting about 10 percent gets to that family in NYC, that you are keeping limos and luxury. And that I suspect is more factual than their vaunted 75% success rate.
June 22nd, 2009 at 5:33 am
I have been sober for 27 years. It seems to me that when you are ready to stop, almost any program could work and if you aren’t ready, none of them will.
June 25th, 2009 at 7:37 am
Ditto. Have to spend your days and nights doing something else. Stamp collecting, woodworking, rock climbing. The idea that you have to hang out in church basements and YWCA meeting rooms for 3 to 4 days a week talking AA talk, doesn’t seem to me it would all that healing. For some yes, but not for some and maybe not for many.
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:06 pm
I am just concluding my 8th year of sobriety, one day at a time. I heard it best said, “If you are ready to quit using, I can’t say the wrong thing, and if you are not ready to quit using, I can’t say the right thing”. I was court ordered to AA many times and it did nothing because i had NO desire to quit. I was still living in my denial lie. I just sat there with contempt for all the drunks I was sure I was way cooler than. I was convinced that I absorbed nothing. Then, when I hit my “bottom’ I instinctively knew where i had to be and was at a meeting within 1 hour of being bailed out of jail. I’ve not used an intoxicating substance since. Everyone’s bottom is different and this past january we buried my best friend who never found his. The woman I love most in the world is heading down the addiction/depression road due in part to childhood trauma and i am helpless to do anything. Denial is a mean bitch! The point is, AA and the fellowship saved my life but i also utilized other things. With the help of a sponser, I identified some major childhood trauma that had alot to do with my self-medicating. My sponser freely indicated to me that neither he nor AA could address these issues and I entered therapy. The Big book speaks of utilizing any means necessary and doesn’t believe AA is the end-all. What people outside the program don’t understand is that you don’t do the steps to quit using, you quit using to do the steps. The steps are a way of living in truth, peace, and reletive serenity without the use of drugs or alcohol. Therapy was also life-saving and to this day I think of my therapist as my guardian angel. AA is self-supporting, refusing outside funding and, “our primary purpose is to stay sober and to help other alcoholics(addicts) to achieve sobriety”. We give to newcomers that which was so freely given to us, but like anything else, ya gotta want it. I would feel suspect of any salesman that told me he could have cured complex spiritual, emotional, and physical damage in me for $19.95 plus shipping and handling. No easy answers kids. For those of you still “out there’, my prayers are with you.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:13 am
This is a tough subject. First off I would like to say that it seems like everyone has made nice after some strong words. It’s all good, sometimes you have to let out your frustrations. I think Thomas Jefferson said all ideas must be laid out on the field and picked apart until only the best stuff remains…Actually I don’t think it was Jefferson.. I digress. I have been sober for a little over six years now. I was looking at this new cure because I want to hang out and drink a few beers like normal people.(Disease talking) We only live once and I hate the thought of getting married and not having a few drinks because “oh he had a problem shhh”. I went to rehab and had a wonderful AA experience. I feel like the program does several things that cause people to reject it. Sponsors should be temporary, meetings optional, stepwork mandatory(for a time). The idea that you never graduate AA is a grim way to look at your life. That’s not to say I didn’t meet the best people in the world in AA but I also met some depressing cases that made me realize I didn’t want to be around early recovery on a regular basis. I choose to be mindful of peoples problems in general and make myself available for anyone who may be having a problem of anykind, is that not carrying the message? Honestly I don’t think it’s a disease. If it is then AA isn’t the holy grail. I hate to say it but I can’t name one person out of my rehab who has stayed clean. I’m the only one. Is that really everyone elses fault but the program of AA?(What about cleaning your own side of the street AA, What part did you play in the person not liking you as a program of recovery)? The more I think about it the more I think I could drink again. If anything to prove that AA is flawed. I really believe that my problems led me to drink. Ihave fixed both problems now why would I have anything to worry about? As for the message of AA being watered down, I disagree. I must have read that book 15 times and I did the steps 3 times. AA is alive and well an will continue to be taught by human beings not robots. The bottom line for me is simply this; I believe surrounding yourself for the rest of your life with addicts who have varying degrees of sobriety and sanity is in fact a big allbeit sometimes gloriously fun mistake.
August 17th, 2009 at 4:15 am
I have read Prentiss’ book after spending 8 years in AA. I had 3 years sober, relapsed, 4 years, relapsed, 6 months, relapsed and now have almost 4 months back. I never stopped going to meetings during all my relapses and each time I relapsed I ‘tried to do AA a different way’. Now I don’t know what else to do because all the ways have not worked. I had sponsees, did the steps, came in very willing and took every suggestion given to me. But now, after this last relapse I’m thinking something is not right. There is something gnawing at me about this whole thing and a series of events have occurred (spiritually, like I’ve been guided) to make me realized that each relapse followed a break up. Why? in AA they would say ‘there’s no reason you drank, you just are an alcoholic’ but after seeing this pattern of broken hearted pain, then relapse, I’ve come to believe that the root to my self destruction lays in some ancient injury and that it is not just because ‘that’s what alchie’s do’. I have no resentment towards AA I have seen it change lives. But I know there are reasons why we do what we do. There are reasons in every other area of life, psychological explanations - why not here too? I do think that there is alot of fear of relapse, people do die from this and it’s serious stuff, but I also know many, about six friends of mine who were hard core addicts, went to AA for several years, then matured out of it and now live normal lives, married, with the occasional beer. Were they never alcoholics? One was on heroin and went to 10 rehabs. Now he’s married and drinks normally, a nice grown up man. I think AA is a great place for people who don’t have friends, it’s really a social club with the focus on drinking, but like most social clubs, people are people and there is alot of high school like behavior. The other thing about AA is that many of my friends who have stayed sober for years yet they are not self aware and seem to have an amorality whereas my ‘normie’ friends are well rounded, and kind. They haven’t had a drink, true, but there are larger issue that are not being addressed, like, how to be a nice person or not betray others. With all the talk of God, I have found a few angels there, but mostly alot of unhappy people who are not getting what they want in life both professionally and romantically….myself included, I think they are missing a kind of joy for living…..just my two cents….and experience, sometimes strength but lots of hope for myself and everyone.
September 19th, 2009 at 12:49 am
To me it sounded like a good way to fatten his pocket from the infomercial. I don’t want to purchase the book and fatten the pocket of a man with an ego that size. I wonder if this man knows the harm he’s doing to the recovering community? I thought to myself of the infomercial he was out to fatten his pocket. It’s a sad day when someone sicker than an alcoholic/addict thinks he has the cure. E-G-O!
October 20th, 2009 at 9:18 am
It’s really sad for people to trash the Alcohol and Addiction Cure book, especially if they have not read it. I bought the CD’s and listened to it intently. I thought the approach was one in which I wish I had written the book myself! For, I had a hard time labeling myself as an ‘alcholic’ and really did not appreciate AA and other entities drilling it into my brain that I am screwed due to hereditary reasons or simply that I am just an incurable drunk. This book confirmed for me what I thought years and years ago: That some of us drink to self medicate and put a big quilt over things that trouble us in our lives. i.e., not feeling wanted, loved, or even worthy of sobriety. In listening to Chris and Pax Prentiss’ book, I don’t feel at all that they are ego craving maniacs that simply want more money. I do believe that they sincerely want to help people and by writing the book and selling the books, they are doing just that. Yes, I wish I could have afforded to stay at Passages, but I respect the people that are lucky enough to do so. I have turned my home environment into my own ‘passages’ by creating an atmosphere of serenity and reason to appreciate life and stay sober. I tried AA and it sucked. It depressed the hell out of me, and I will never go back. AA never challenged me to go into the depths of my mind and heart and really dig into why I was drinking. Each time I was sober, the pain was too much and so I would relapse — simply because I didn’t have the tools to take my past head on as I do now. Please, if you have not read the book by Chris Prentiss, please do so prior to crushing the hopes of people that this book might just work for. For everyone, there is a source of hope. And, I do believe in a ‘cure’. We have to treat our pain from before, for those of us whom have self medicated, and from that treatment, an entire host of good things follow. This book is not overly religious either, something that I really appreciated because I don’t like the AA message crammed down my throat. To all readers, enjoy the day, be safe, and best luck in finding what works best for YOU! Pat yourself on the back for at least trying to better yourself and your health.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Though I’m just starting with the book and trying to keep an open mind, I’m already finding it difficult after seeing the website from Passages, researching the cost and seeing the posts here. I firmly believe that tho there are some that can do recovery without a 12 step program, they are the exception and not the rule and if one puts as much effort into AA as they put into their addiction, recovery can be achieved and maintained.
December 11th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
HI Everyone and thanks for posting.
Just to address the subject and move on: The man has “Car Salesman” written all over his face. Infomercials are the 20/21 century version of the Wagon/Tent charlatans. Mr Praxis also states exactly what is said in the AA book. Underlying issues: uhhh. Isn’t that what the steps are about? Also the AA book says “blah blah is a disease that centers in the mind etc”. So, just to put an end to Mr Praxis’ BS- he pretty much says a great deal that is said in the Big Book.
I am at a turning point in my life. I had a wonderful 6 yrs sober, and 8 years without my drug of choice- pain killing meds (opiates). Part of this wonderful 6 yrs was due to AA. Part of it was due to my own spiritual experience. Neither of which I followed through with. I did not get past step 4. As far as my own spiritual experience- it remained an experience- I grew in it for a while and stopped my own discipline. That was simply walking and praying and reflecting in the morning about things that Saints said, or other wise people or the beauty of nature, or wonders of science- but all of it was worshiping or being in awe of something besides me and my problems. As soon as I drifted away from both of these- little by little (not because my disease was doing push ups in the parking lot- something that annoys me to no end- these over and over phrases)- yes little by little I drifted away out of ……a lack of discipline, laziness, putting other things first, then this leading to very poor decision making- getting remarried… And 4 yrs ago I “slipped”. I had to move back to Miami- after living in Maine for 5 of those years- to care for my mother (2nd not so great decision-although definitely not selfish). I picked up pain-killers lying around in no time. I ended making another-that could cost me my life- very poor decision- and that was to try this relatively new medicine called “Suboxone” that is an opiate “maintenance” or “detox” medication- touted as not having bad side effects and being relatively easy to stop. 4 yrs ago…. The result has been catastrophic.
So, just to be clear- I made the decision to not put my sobriety first. And I think no matter what path you take- if alcohol or drugs are your problem- or a manifestation of- that addressing this has to be the most important thing in your life. How ever you choose to do it- AA, Zen, Mass, Cognitive Therapy- whatever works for you- keep doing it- put that first. I have had drug/alc problems all my life- and as long as I put my sobriety first and was disciplined in this- I stayed sober, and loved life.
Now, I seem unable to stop. I have used other meds now as well. I have gotten myself into quite the hole. One person mentioned relationships. For me, I discovered that I have to really be in total sober discipline to handle this. I am divorced (my own decision) now.
Things are much more stable at home. BUT- I cannot stop. I am terrified of going through w/d once more.
AA has not worked so well for me since. I have tried to go back. The Steps I believe are a God send. But I feel condemned. Another nice little AA phrase I once heard- “be careful not to use up all your recovery cards”- ie- if you slip one too many times, it may be the end. And I am not so sure it is a good thing to say. Because people like me listen to stuff like that. I feel condemned. I really do feel like I screwed up one too many times.
That after 20 years of being in and out and around AA that it is over for me. I hate using. I have gone from (4ys ago) scuba diving even in the winter in Maine, Surfing, Solo camping in wilderness areas, all sorts of outdoor stuff- to having had a heart attack, not wanting to go out of my room let alone my house.
All this to say- I really appreciate what everyone wrote because I do not feel so hopeless now. That there are others that have found that AA works for some, and others not so much, that there are miracles in AA, but maybe it is not where it will happen for me. All in all- that most people that seem ok on their posts- seem to have made a “program” that has ended up being tailored to them. I just have to keep trying.
I will end with this- however you want to describe disease- it does not matter that much. I along with others am of the type that lost my ability to “choose” to drink or use casually. Something changed in me when I was in my late 20s. Addiction took over. I could never drink or use something without it triggering wanting more and more.
If you are reading this blog- chances are you or someone you know is dealing with this- and it is serious- no matter how you choose to deal with it. It leads to a life of misery.
It has for me. When I have been sober- I have enjoyed life to its fullest. Now….things do not look good. So this is no light subject to be toyed with by cure all sociopaths Mr.Praxis.